How to foster true diversity and inclusion at work (and in your community) | Rosalind G. Brewer

66,536 views ・ 2020-12-23

TED


请双击下面的英文字幕来播放视频。

翻译人员: C Cheng 校对人员: Yolanda Zhang
00:12
Whitney Pennington Rodgers: Hi, Roz Brewer.
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惠特尼 · 彭宁顿 · 罗杰斯: 嗨,罗兹·布鲁尔。
非常感谢你参与今天的谈话。
00:14
Thanks so much for being with us today.
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罗莎琳德·布鲁尔: 感谢你们邀请我。
00:16
Rosalind Brewer: Thank you for having me.
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惠特妮: 我们可以直接进入话题。
00:18
WPR: We can just dive right in.
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我们现在进入了 2020 年的 最后一个季度,
00:20
We're right now in the last quarter of 2020,
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00:23
and I think that a lot of people would agree that we're in the midst
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我认为许多人都会同意, 我们正身处于
00:27
of what's probably one of the largest reckonings around racial equity
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一个围绕种族平等 而展开的考量之中,
00:31
that we've had in this country in decades.
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它也许是这个国家几十年来 最大的考量之一。
00:33
And it's something that you've been such a vocal advocate for,
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而这正是你一直在大力倡导的——
00:37
both through your role at Starbucks
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不仅体现在 你在星巴克的职务,
00:40
and throughout your career of diversity and inclusion in the workplace.
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也体现在你 多元并蓄的职业生涯。
00:44
And so I'm curious just to hear from you to start off the conversation,
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所以在对话开始之前, 我想先听听你的想法,
00:47
what this moment means for DEI efforts,
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当下这个时刻对于实现 “多元、平等、包容”的行动意味着什么,
00:50
not just in corporate America but in business in general.
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不仅仅针对美国的公司, 也包括整个商业界。
00:54
RB: You are right
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罗莎琳德:不错。
00:55
that this has made many of us that are in the corporate setting and beyond
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这让我们当中很多在企业 以及其它环境中工作的人
00:59
to rethink the position on diversity and inclusion in the workplace.
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开始重新思考多元化与包容性 在工作场所中所处的位置。
01:04
You know, let me start the conversation about where are we actually
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首先,我想来谈谈
在企业环境的多元化和包容性上, 我们的现状如何。
01:09
in diversity and inclusion in the corporate setting,
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01:12
and I will tell you that this is actually putting a spotlight on the weaknesses
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我想说,这就等于 是聚焦在一些薄弱环节上,
01:17
and maybe the lack of forethought
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或许是缺少
我们本应始终持有的, 对这一问题的前瞻性和严肃关注。
01:19
and intensity that we should always have maintained on this subject all along.
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01:26
One of the things that I think it's been highlighting for most of us
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对我们大多数人而言, 需要意识到的一个关键就是,
01:30
is that our biggest opportunity is inclusion.
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包容性是我们最大的机遇。
01:33
Because, you know, I have heard the stories so many times
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因为我己经多次听到人们说,
01:39
about how there's no Black talent out there,
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我们如何缺乏黑人人才,
01:42
no Latinx talent for these particular roles.
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如何缺乏满足某些 特定职位需求的拉丁裔人才。
01:45
The talent is out there.
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人才是有的,
01:46
I will tell you that it's underdeveloped,
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但是没有得到充分的发展,
01:48
because I think we have spent more time trying to reach numbers
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因为,我认为我们把更多的时间 花在了如何达到某个指标,
01:52
than we have changing our environment
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而不是改变我们的环境,
01:54
where people feel safe,
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以使人们感到安全,
01:56
where they feel they can come to work and be their whole self,
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感到他们可以来这里工作, 同时充分保持自我;
01:59
give it everything they've got,
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贡献他们的全部力量,
02:01
be their natural self
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保持自己的本性。
02:02
and be respected for it and applauded for it,
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同时能够受到尊重,获得掌声;
02:06
and for people to recognize and appreciate their differences
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人们能够认可 并欣赏他们的差异,
02:10
and understand that they're differences,
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理解他们的不同之处;
02:12
and if they're included in the conversations,
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如果让他们融入到对话中来,
02:15
that they're just a better resource for the companies.
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他们将成为公司更优秀的资源。
02:18
So I think there's so much opportunity in the inclusion space,
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所以我认为,在包容性的空间里 存在着非常多的机会,
02:22
because we focus too much on meeting metrics.
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因为我们太专注于达成指标了。
02:26
WPR: And, you know, I think earlier this year
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惠特妮: 今年早些时候
02:28
when the protests began right after the death of George Floyd,
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就在乔治·弗洛伊德死后不久, 当抗议开始的时候,
02:31
we saw lots of organizations put out these statements of solidarity,
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我们看到许多组织 发表了声明以示声援,
02:36
these commitments to do more to be inclusive
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承诺要在包容性上做出更多努力,
02:39
both in their workspace
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不仅在他们的工作场所,
02:41
and for their customers and people who support their work.
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也针对他们的顾客和协助人员。
02:45
But then you also hear --
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但是,你也会听到——
02:46
I've heard a lot of business leaders say things like, "You know,
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我听到了很多商业领袖说,比如:
02:49
we want to do something but don't really know where to start."
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“我们想要做些什么, 但是不知道该从何开始。”
02:52
And so I'm curious to hear from you just sort of what do you think
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所以,我想听一下你的想法:
02:56
are ways that you actually can make a real difference
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当考虑到多元化和包容性的时候,
02:59
when it comes to thinking about diversity and inclusion
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哪些方法能让你真正有所作为,
03:03
and avoid sort of this performative justice?
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并避免这种仅在实施层面上 做出的公正评判?
03:06
RB: Yes.
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罗莎琳德:好的。
03:07
So there's a few things that I think about in this space.
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关于这个话题, 我会考虑几件事。
03:11
First of all, when you think about an inclusive environment,
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首先,当你考虑一个 包容性的环境时,
03:14
you think about: Am I being heard?
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你会考虑:我的声音有没有被听到?
03:16
And most people with differences,
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每个人都是不同的,
03:20
they want to know that you are heard and that you are seen.
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他们想知道你会 被听到,被注意到。
03:24
And I really applaud the companies who have been spending time
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我真心要为那些公司鼓掌, 他们花了很多时间
03:27
just putting themselves on a learning journey,
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来学习,
03:30
you know, holding listening sessions,
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举办意见听取会,
03:32
trying to make sure that we've got different viewpoints
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试图确保在做出重大决定时,
03:38
when big decisions are made.
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我们已经拥有了不同的视角。
03:40
You know, there are some companies who are engaging their partner networks
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有一些公司正在 以前所未有的方式
与他们的合作网络保持接触。
03:44
in ways that they've never done before.
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03:46
I think those are some early success factors
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我认为这是 一些初步的成功因素,
03:48
that could lead us to different kinds of conversations.
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它们可以将我们带到 不同类型的对话中。
03:52
And I've been listening to a lot of my peers in different industries,
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我一直在倾听不同产业中 许多同辈们的声音,
03:55
and they're having their own personal aha moments,
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他们有自己的顿悟时刻,
03:58
and they're actually checking themselves at the front door, saying,
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他们其实是在自我反省:
04:02
"I never thought," "I never knew,"
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“我从来没想过”, “我从来不知道”,
04:04
"I didn't know what I was doing when I said X, or when I did this." Right?
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“当我说某些话,或者这样做的时候, 我并不知道我在做什么。”
04:08
And so I think it starts with some very simple things.
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所以,我认为应该从 一些简单的事情入手。
04:12
I'd say that there are a lot of steps to take
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我说过,要在采取许多步骤之后,
04:15
before training and development, that's for sure.
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才能开始培训提高, 这是肯定的。
04:17
So those that are jumping quickly into training and development,
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所以,对那些迅速跳到 培训提高这一步的人,
04:21
I'd say put a pause on it and just get back to grassroots
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我要说,停下脚步,回到基层,
04:24
and hold listening sessions and then decide,
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先召开意见听取会,然后再决定
04:26
what do you want to do?
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你想做什么。
04:28
And then help those people of diverse backgrounds
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然后去帮助那些 具有不同背景的人
04:31
engage in those conversations about how they want to see change happen.
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参与到对话中,讨论 他们希望看到怎样的改变。
04:35
They're the best resource for a lot of this
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对于许多此类讨论来说,
04:38
and a lot of these discussions.
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他们是最佳资源。
04:39
I mean, I learned so much.
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我从中学到了很多东西。
04:41
I have breakfast sessions with the baristas and partners
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我会经常在星巴克 与服务生和合作伙伴
04:45
at Starbucks regularly.
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进行早餐会。
04:47
I just had one yesterday, and when my screen popped up,
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我昨天刚刚开过一次。 当我的屏幕弹出一个窗口——
04:50
I had nine diverse randomly selected partners.
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我有九个随机挑选的, 背景多元的搭档。
04:55
We call our employees "partners."
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我们把雇员称为“搭档”。
04:57
And it was such a rich conversation,
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那是一次非常丰富多彩的对话。
05:00
and they began to network while I'm talking to them, right,
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在我与他们谈话时, 他们开始建立联系,
05:03
they were learning from each other.
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相互学习。
05:05
And this wasn't a diversity conversation.
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这并不是一个 关于多元化的对话。
05:07
We were actually kicking off our new financial year at Starbucks,
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我们其实正在开启 星巴克的新财年,
05:11
and so this was actually a business conversation
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所以,这其实是一次商业谈话,
05:14
and a touch-base to see how you're doing
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也是为了保持联络,
看一看当我们远程工作时, 你的近况如何。
05:16
while we're working remotely.
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05:18
And, you know, it starts there with building relationships
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它的起点是建立联系,
05:21
and learning people for who they are and engaging them and saying,
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了解他们是谁,与他们 保持接触,并对他们说:
05:26
"I see you, I hear you."
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“我注意到了你, 听到了你的声音。”
05:27
That goes such a long way that I think if we do more of that,
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这会非常有帮助,我甚至认为, 如果我们继续朝着这个方向推进,
05:33
I even think the engagement and performance
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参与和业绩
05:35
just goes through the roof.
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将会快速提升。
05:37
WPR: And so what I hear you saying, then, is that it's less about
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惠特妮: 那么你的意思是,
它关系到的并不主要是短期的, “我该如何应对当前这一时刻?”
05:40
this short-term "how can I respond to this moment right now?"
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05:43
and it's more about long-term engagement with people
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而更多的是关于长期的 与他人的密切联系,
05:47
and making this part of the fabric of how you do your work.
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以及使其成为 工作架构中的一部分。
05:51
And so I'm curious also to hear a little bit about,
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所以,我还想听一听
05:55
just, I guess if there is a timeline,
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这里是否有 一个明确的时间线呢?
05:57
when people think about how quickly they should be responding to protests
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比如,当人们考虑应该 以多快的速度对抗议活动,
06:02
and to what's happening in this cultural moment.
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对发生在这个 文化危机时刻的事情做出响应。
06:07
What should we actually be looking at
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当我们见到这些变化 被落实并产生效果时,
06:09
as far as when we see this change actually materialize and take effect?
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我们应该期待些什么呢?
06:16
RB: Yes. So I think there are some short-term things.
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罗莎琳德:我认为 这里有些事是短期的。
06:19
There are some really key partnerships in the communities around our localities
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在我们所在地的社区中 有一些非常关键的合作伙伴,
06:25
that are really important to also engage
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如果他们也参与到某些 意见听取及学习座谈会中,
06:28
in some of the listening and learning sessions as well.
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那也将是非常重要的。
06:31
I learn tons from organizations like the Legal Defense Fund,
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我从法律辩护基金会这样的 组织那里学到了很多东西。
06:38
from the NAACP,
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还有全国有色人种协进会,
06:39
and engaging those partnerships that we've had over the years,
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我们与这些年来的 合作伙伴保持着密切联系,
06:43
but changing the discussion of the conversation
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但是在商谈讨论如何合作而时,
06:46
about how do we partner together.
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我们做了一些改变。
06:48
Because one of the things that I fear for being a retailer
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因为,让我担忧的一件事—— 作为一个零售商,
06:51
like Starbucks and many other companies
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比如星巴克及许多其它公司——
06:55
is that I want my partners to feel not only safe, comfortable,
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那就是,我希望我的搭档 不仅在公司里能感到安全舒适,
06:59
heard and seen in the company,
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他们的声音被人听到,受人注目,
07:01
I want them to have that same experience in the community.
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我还希望他们在社区里 也有同样的经历。
07:04
And so that's when it comes full circle.
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这就又转回到了原地。
07:07
I really want diverse BIPOC employees
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我真心希望非裔美国人、原住民、 有色人种这些多元化的雇员们
07:11
to feel like, you know, "I make a difference."
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能够觉得:“我可以改善现状。”
07:15
First of all, I vote every year.
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首先,我每年都会投票。
07:17
I'm engaged in my community.
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我参与到了我的社区活动之中。
07:19
And then I'm engaged in work.
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我参与到了我的工作之中。
07:20
So I have value.
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我是有价值的。
07:21
And so I think there are some key partnerships
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所以,我认为有一些 关键性的伙伴关系
07:24
that should happen right now
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应该立即建立,
07:25
so that we can make sure that our employees feel like
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这样,我们就可以确保 我们的雇员们感到
07:28
they have a full way to engage in this change that's underfoot right now.
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他们可以充分参与到 正在发生的变化之中。
07:35
WPR: And then I wonder, conversely,
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惠特妮: 反过来,我想知道,
07:37
what sort of pitfalls have you seen business leaders fall into
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在你看来,商业领袖们 犯了哪些错误,
07:41
that are actually just not effective
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他们的决策既无效,
07:44
and are not supportive of efforts
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也不支持
07:46
to be more inclusive and to diversify?
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为增强包容性和多元化 而做的努力?
07:49
What are some of the things that haven't worked?
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有哪些事情被证明 是无效的呢?
07:51
RB: Yeah, you know, I worry about the race for numbers, to meet numbers,
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罗莎琳德:我担心的是,为了达到 一个目标而在数字上进行的竞争,
07:57
because what you will find, I've found many times in my career,
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因为,如同我在职业生涯中 多次发现的那样,你会看到
08:01
is that some of our best leaders have good intentions,
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一些最出色的领导者们 有着好的意向,
08:04
but they don't understand.
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但是对一些事情并不了解。
08:06
They don't understand the partner sitting next to them
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他们不了解那个坐在他们旁边,
08:09
that looks different from them.
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看上去与他们不同的搭档。
08:11
And so I worry about when we race to numbers,
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所以,当我们在数字上 竞争时,我会为此担心。
08:13
because, you know what?
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因为,你知道吗?
08:15
The kind of country we live in, the world we live in,
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在我们生活的国家里, 在我们生活的世界上,
08:18
we all know how to make numbers work.
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我们都知道 如何让数字起作用。
08:20
What we don't know how to do is to build strong relationships
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我们不知道的是,
如何建立持久的, 有价值的牢固关系。
08:23
that are lasting, that are valued.
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08:26
And I think that's where we need to start,
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我认为这是我们需要 开始着手的地方:
08:28
is relationship-building and key partnerships.
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关系建设,以及 关键性的合作伙伴。
08:31
So I worry about the numbers base.
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所以, 我担心的是底数。
08:37
WPR: And so, of course, I think we all remember a few years back,
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惠特妮:当然, 我想我们都记得几年前,
08:40
Starbucks had a very public issue.
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星巴克遇到了一次公众事件,
08:43
You were embroiled in that incident in Philadelphia
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你们卷入了费城的
08:46
around racial discrimination
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一起种族歧视案件。
08:47
that led to Starbucks taking a step back and thinking about inclusion
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它让星巴克退后了一步, 开始思考关于包容性、
08:53
and implicit bias and racial sensitivity.
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隐性偏见和种族敏感性的问题。
08:57
So how did that experience help prepare you for this year,
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那段经历如何 帮助你们为今年做好了准备,
09:01
both as an individual business leader and then also as an organization?
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无论是就个体商业领导者, 还是就组织而言?
09:06
How did it help you approach what we've been experiencing
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它如何帮助你们应对
09:09
in this country in the past few months?
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过去的几个月,我们 在这个国家里所经历的一切?
09:11
RB: So, that was a real example of leadership
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罗莎琳德:那是一个 关于领导力的真实案例,
09:15
and, actually, where Starbucks had failed in selecting the right leadership
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其实也是星巴克在为 该门店选择领导层上
09:21
for that store.
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失败的地方。
09:23
And to give you an example,
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举个例子,
09:26
the person that was running that store
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运营那个门店的人
09:27
was a very young, up-and-coming leader for the company,
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是一个非常年轻,在公司里 很有前途的领导者。
09:32
and to put her in a store in 18th and Spruce in Philadelphia
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把她派到位于费城 第 18 街和云杉路的门店,
09:38
was an opportunity for all of us.
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对于我们所有人 都曾是一个机会。
09:39
So in retrospect, one of the reasons why we did the antibias training
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所以,回想起来,我们进行 反偏见培训的原因之一
09:45
was to make sure that we began those conversations.
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就是要确保这些对话得以展开。
09:47
And when I talk about not just training --
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当我谈到不仅仅是培训时——
09:50
that training was very unique because it was self-engaged.
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这个培训非常特别, 因为它的核心是自我参与,
09:54
They weren't being taught by an instructor.
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而不是由老师传授。
09:57
They had to have conversations with their peer baristas
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他们必须与咖啡厅的同行们
10:00
around diversity and inclusion amongst themselves.
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就多元化和包容性, 在他们当中展开对话。
10:04
So it wasn't moderated by any leader in the company.
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所以,它并不受 公司领导人员的审核。
10:07
It was self-instructive.
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更多的是自我教育。
10:09
And the conversations that were created
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一旦我们有了那样的关系建设,
10:12
once we had that kind of relationship-building --
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就会创造出那样的对话。
10:16
you know, we had some of our baristas asking us,
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我们有一些 咖啡店的店员会问:
10:18
"Can I take this home and talk to my father,
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“我可以把这套机制带回家, 与我的父亲谈谈吗?
10:20
who never let me take the Black girl to the prom?"
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他从来不让我 带黑人姑娘去舞会。”
10:23
You know, we started what we felt like a movement and a discussion
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我们感觉我们所开启的 像是一场运动或讨论,
10:27
that we have been able to really use from that point on
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我们可以真正地用它来
10:32
in terms of the way we want to escalate the conversations
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升级对话
10:35
and make change happen at Starbucks,
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以及在星巴克进行革新。
10:36
and not only at Starbucks but in our communities,
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不仅仅是在星巴克, 也在我们的社区里,
10:39
because there were quite a few organizations that we reached out to
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因为有不少我们接触到的,
10:43
that we're still engaged with today
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至今仍保持着密切联系的组织,
10:46
that are helping us build community leadership as well.
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帮助我们建立了社区领导层。
10:51
WPR: And is that the goal?
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惠特妮: 这是你们的目的吗?
10:52
I mean, you mentioning an employee who wanted to take their learnings home.
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我是指,你提到了一位想把 学到的东西带回家的雇员。
10:56
Is the goal in thinking about how you approach these issues as an organization
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作为一个组织,在考虑该如何
为你的雇员和合作伙伴 处理这些问题时,
11:00
for your employees and your partners
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11:03
to see how they can move this beyond just their work life?
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你们的目标是要看到他们 如何将此延申到工作之外吗?
11:07
RB: Sure. You know, a lot of this starts at home.
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罗莎琳德:当然。 许多这类对话都是在家里展开的,
11:11
It starts with what happens at your dinner table. Right?
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比如晚餐时间。
11:14
And so we can correct what happens and we're responsible for what happens
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所以,如果你来星巴克上班的话, 我们可以对发生的事情进行纠正,
11:18
when you come to work at Starbucks,
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并对其负起责任。
11:20
but we also realize that we can only get them ever so far,
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但是,我们也认识到 我们最多也只能做到这一步。
11:25
but if you're at the table having some conversations
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但是,如果你在饭桌上的谈话
11:28
that are counter to what you're learning in the workplace,
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与你在工作场所 学到的东西相悖的话,
11:31
you can't help but slow down your growth and your change.
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你就不得不放慢 你的成长与变化。
11:33
And so a lot of the work that we do around diversity and inclusion
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所以,我们围绕多元化和 包容性开展的许多工作
11:38
is open-sourced.
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都是开源的。
11:39
So when we created the materials for the work
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所以,当我们为这项工作 准备了培训材料,
11:42
when we had the closing of our stores on May 28th,
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在 5 月 28 号关店的时候,
11:46
we had given that to so many other companies for them to use,
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我们把材料交给了 许多其它公司使用。
11:51
and even we're doing some work right now around Courageous Conversations.
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我们现在正在围绕 “无畏交谈”开展工作。
11:56
And in this remote world,
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在这个远程世界里,
11:58
we're allowing our partners to bring their families onto the camera
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我们允许我们的搭档把 他们的家人带到摄像头前,
12:02
or listen in the room
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或者,在房间里旁听
12:03
as we have courageous conversations on diversity.
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我们就多元化而 进行的“无畏交谈”。
12:06
So if Starbucks has a keynote speaker on a certain diversity topic,
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如果星巴克在某个多元话题上 有一个主要发言人的话,
12:11
we invite the family in.
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我们会邀请家属参加。
12:13
And it's been really, it's been great.
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这是一段非常棒的经历。
12:15
A lot of our senior executives have said,
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许多高级管理人员说过,
12:18
"This is starting new conversations with my teens at home,"
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“这让我在家里与我那 青春期的孩子开始了新的对话。”
12:22
who are either getting bullied ...
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不然他们就会被欺负......
12:24
These are changing the conversations about why we question
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这些正在改变着我们的对话; 它关系到我们为什么
12:27
some of the actions that we had around our house.
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要对某些家庭活动进行质疑。
12:30
And so we need to understand that to embrace this issue,
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所以,我们需要了解, 如果要直面这个问题,
12:35
it is not as small as numbers,
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不能狭隘地只盯着数字,
12:37
it's not as small as just the workplace.
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也不能仅限于工作场所。
12:39
It is very comprehensive.
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它的适用范围是非常宽泛的。
12:42
So we're trying to do something different here
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所以,我们在这里尝试着 做一些不同的事情,
12:45
to change the conversations and then actually grow inclusion
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以改变这些对话, 并使包容性能够
12:48
in a very, very grassroots way
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真正地以基层化的方式
12:50
at Starbucks.
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在星巴克得以发展。
12:52
WPR: And, of course, I would imagine as a Black woman and a business leader
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惠特妮:我可以想象, 作为一位黑人女性和商业领导者,
12:56
that these issues hit really close to home for you.
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这些问题真切地 触碰到了你的痛点。
13:00
And I'm curious just with your interactions
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我很好奇地想了解,你与同事,
13:03
with colleagues and counterparts at other organizations
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与其它组织里的同僚之间的互动。
13:06
that perhaps there isn't that same level of investment
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也许,在其它组织里, 并没有同水平的投入,
13:09
because it isn't something that's as important personally.
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因为, 就个人而言, 它没有同样的重要性。
13:13
And I'm curious how you are able to begin those conversations
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而且,我也很想知道你是如何
与同事和同僚们 开始这些对话的。
13:18
with colleagues and counterparts
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13:20
who are in positions to bring about this sort of change
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毕竟他们有能力 将这种变化引入到
13:23
in their own organizations
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自己的组织
13:24
or within Starbucks.
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或者星巴克的。
13:25
How do you get them invested,
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你是怎么使他们 投入这项工作中的?
13:28
and how do you, frankly, get them to care about this?
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或者直白一点,你是如何 让他们认真对待这件事的?
13:31
RB: Yeah, that's a very good question.
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罗莎琳德: 这是一个非常好的问题。
13:33
So, I have two children.
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我有两个孩子。
13:34
I have a daughter who is 17 and a son who is 25.
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女儿 17 岁,儿子 25 岁。
13:38
And quite honestly, when that situation happened
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坦率地说, 当 2018 年
13:41
in our Starbucks stores back in 2018,
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我们的一个门店发生这件事时,
13:44
my son was the same exact age as Donte and Rashon
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我儿子正好与堂特和瑞尚 (星巴克种族歧视事件当事人)同龄,
13:48
and looks a lot like them, by the way,
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而且这两个孩子 看起来也很像他们。
13:50
and would have been sitting in the Starbucks
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他也可能会坐在星巴克里,
13:52
dressed the same way they were.
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穿戴得和他们一样。
13:53
So that incident alone was deeply personal to me,
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所以,那次事件本身 对我来说非常私人化,
13:56
actually made me grab my chest, right?
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让我感到非常揪心和后怕。
13:59
Because I knew at any given moment
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因为我知道在任何时刻,
14:01
my husband or my son could get pulled over,
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我的丈夫,或者我的儿子 也可能会被质询,
14:04
and I'd get that call in the middle of the night.
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而我可能在半夜接到那个电话。
14:06
So it's deeply personal for me,
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所以,它对我来说非常私人化。
14:09
and what I try to do is I share stories,
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我试图做的是分享这些故事。
14:11
and I talk very openly about my family and what we do on the weekends
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我非常公开地谈到我的家庭, 以及我们在周末做的事情,
14:15
and our holiday traditions and all of those things.
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还有我们的假日传统 和所有这些事情。
14:18
And I have no issue with someone leaning over to me,
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我不介意有人凑近我,
14:21
maybe one of my white counterparts,
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也许是我的一位白人同僚,
14:23
saying, "I don't understand that. What are they talking about?"
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对我说:“我对那个完全不理解。 他们在说些什么?“
14:26
when they hear something that's a little bit different than their culture.
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此时他们听到了一些与 他们的文化稍许不同的事物。
14:30
And I'm wide open to explain and have those conversations,
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我会坦诚地加以解释并展开对话,
14:34
because I feel like I really want to be a conduit for that.
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因为我觉得我真的 很想成为它的一条渠道。
14:38
I always tell everyone, no question's too small or too big.
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我常常对每个人讲, 没有什么问题是过小或者过大。
14:42
Even with everything that's going on right now
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尽管当前
14:44
in our environment around social unrest,
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我们的环境中发生了社会动荡
14:46
I've gotten tons of calls from my white peers at different companies
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我仍然接到了很多来自 其它公司的白人同辈的电话,
14:52
saying, "Roz, what do you think? What are you hearing?
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“罗兹,你是怎么想的? 你听到了什么?
给我解释一下。”
14:55
Help me out here."
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我会放下一切事情,
14:56
I'll drop everything,
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14:57
because if I can help, and I'll tell the story,
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因为,如果我能帮上忙的话, 我会讲述这个故事。
15:00
and I think most people know if they've known me over the years.
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而且大部分 了解我的人都会知道,
我非常坦率,直言不讳。
15:03
I'm pretty frank and outspoken.
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15:04
And I'll also tell them when they've really messed up
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当有人把事情搞砸了的时候, 我也会直接告诉他们,
并且指导他们 接下来要怎么处理。
15:07
and what they need to do about it.
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15:08
And so I think I want more Black leaders
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我希望更多的黑人领导者
15:13
to feel just as confident in doing that.
291
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3505
在做这些事情时, 能够感到同样自信。
我不认为这里有任何风险。
15:16
I see no risk in it.
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15:18
I do realize that it begins a new relationship with some people,
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我确实意识到它开启了 我与一些人的新的联系。
15:22
and some people can't take the tough conversations,
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2482
有些人无法承受艰难的对话,
但是,现在的确到了 进行艰难对话的时候。
15:25
but it's time for tough conversations.
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15:27
WPR: And, I mean, to that point,
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惠特妮: 针对这一点,
15:29
I imagine there are probably also people who,
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我想象可能有人,
15:31
because these conversations are tough and uncomfortable,
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因为这些对话 既艰难又令人不快,
15:34
think maybe it's easier or better to just avoid having to do that
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而认为更简单或更好的 做法是避免这么做,
15:39
and to have those conversations and discussions
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避免让这些对话和讨论
15:42
to stir the pot in some ways.
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加剧紧张局面。
15:43
And so what do you say to the people
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那么,你会对这样的人 说些什么呢?
15:45
who think "Let's just try to lay low,"
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他们认为: “让咱们试着低调一些。”
15:49
and I've heard some of this, too, in this moment, "Let the moment pass
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3292
我也听到过这样的一些说法, “就让这件事过去吧,
15:52
so that we can get back to business as usual"?
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2490
好让我们尽快回到常态。”
15:55
RB: Yeah. Well, I'd first start off by saying how disgusted I am
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罗莎琳德: 首先我要说,
我对这种说法很反感,
15:58
by that statement,
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16:00
because leaders lead in the moment,
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因为,领导者要在此刻进行领导,
16:03
and you never know when you're going to be called upon.
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2619
而且,你永远不会知道 你何时会被召唤到。
16:06
And if this isn't a calling,
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如果这个不算是召唤的话,
16:08
I don't know what is.
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我不知道什么算是。
16:09
And so when I get that call and say,
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所以当我受到召唤时却说
16:11
"You know, I just think I should take the back seat
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2437
“你了解,我就是认为 我应该退居次位,
16:14
and just kind of let this brew here and that calm down,"
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让它在这儿酝酿一下, 再冷却下去。”
16:18
you know, we need to all -- it's an all-in moment.
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你知道,我们需要全力以赴—— 这是一个破釜沉舟的时刻。
16:21
And leadership is not designated by your title.
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领导力并不是 由你的头衔来派定的。
16:26
It's designated about how great you can create followership.
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3984
它关系到在创造 追随者时,你有多棒。
16:30
And having thought leadership,
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想到领导力,
人们低估了这样的一个机会,
16:35
people underestimate the opportunity
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16:38
to pick up the phone and call someone, and say, "How are you?
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即拿起电话机,给某人打 个电话,问问:“你还好吗?
16:41
How is this affecting you? How can I help?"
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2848
这件事对你有什么影响吗? 我该怎样帮你呢?”
16:44
That's pretty simple.
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这很简单。
16:45
You might decide it's something I can't help with,
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你也许很确定, 在这件事上帮不了什么忙。
16:48
but you'd better darn sure pick up the phone
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但你最好还是拿起电话,
16:50
and start feeling out the environment
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开始摸清楚
你的雇员、同辈和 领导所处的环境,
16:52
in your employee base, in your peers, in your leaders,
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16:55
because the time is now, and so I don't give them an out.
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因为现在正是时候, 所以我不会让他们推辞。
16:59
I actually try and push them over the edge,
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我其实尝试过试探 他们的能力极限,
17:03
because sometimes they are just kind of stuck, like, "What do I do?"
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因为有时他们会陷入困境, 比如,“我该怎么办?"
17:06
And then the other thing that I personally have to do
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另一件我个人要做的事是
17:10
is to make sure that they understand
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确保他们理解
17:12
that because I am at this level where I am,
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因为我处在我所在的位置,
17:14
I'm not excluded from these issues, right?
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我并没有从 这些问题中被排除,对吗?
我知道,当我的丈夫 跳进他的车里时,
17:18
I know that when my husband jumps in his vehicle,
334
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3220
17:21
I worry every time if he's out in the evening
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我每每都会担心, 如果他晚上出去的话,
17:24
that he may not come back home the same way he left.
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可能不会像离开时那样回来。
17:27
I feel that way for my son and for my husband.
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对我的儿子,我的丈夫, 我会有这种感觉。
17:29
I still get, even when I go shopping,
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即使当我购物时,
17:32
I still get the look, am I stealing,
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我仍然会受到那样的注视—— 我是不是在偷窃;
17:36
watching me as I walk around the corner.
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当我走到拐角处时, 有双眼睛一直会盯着我。
17:38
And I don't know what else or how else I can look or act any different,
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我不知道还有什么,或者还能怎样 让我看起来或者表现得有所不同,
17:42
so I just act like myself.
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所以,我索性就做我自己。
17:43
I used to get dressed to go shopping.
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我过去常常穿戴整齐了 才去购物。
17:47
Now I never do that.
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现在,我再也不这样做了。
17:48
If I'm spending my money, my money spends everywhere,
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如果我花钱的话,我的钱 可以花在任何一个地方;
17:51
and if I get that feeling that you're going to race me around the store,
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如果我感觉到你 在商店里歧视我的话,
17:55
then I'm going to leave, and that's your loss.
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我就离开,那将是你的损失。
17:57
But I still get that, and so I worry.
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但是,我仍然会遭受歧视, 所以我会担心。
18:00
So I also try to help people understand that this is not a socioeconomic,
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我也会试图帮助人们理解 这并不是一个社会经济问题;
18:07
once you've sort of "made it," you're out of the water.
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一旦取得成功, 你便脱离了困境。
18:10
No.
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不。
18:11
We're still, as someone with differences, visible differences, you're still at risk.
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因为我们依旧有着 明显的不同之处,依旧面临风险。
18:18
WPR: And so much of this conversation also is about
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惠特妮: 很多对话还关系到
18:23
who's in leadership and who's making these decisions
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谁在领导,谁在做出这些决定,
18:25
and representation at high levels.
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以及谁在高层进行投诉。
18:29
And I know that you've been really vocal about your own experiences
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我知道你对自身的 经历一向直言不讳。
18:33
as a woman color, person of color, as a Black woman,
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作为一名有色人种,一名女性 有色人种,一名黑人女性,
18:37
in these executive positions,
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你身居行政执行领导的职位,
18:40
and often feeling you are the only one in some rooms,
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而且经常感到,在某些情况下, 你是唯一的一位,
18:45
and sort of the isolation of that,
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因而有点被孤立。
18:46
but also the challenges in making choices and getting things done
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但是,必要的情况下, 你也在做出选择和完成任务时
18:52
when that's the case.
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提出了挑战。
18:53
And so I'm curious also,
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所以,我也想知道,
18:55
what are the opportunities that this moment presents
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这一时刻为我们提供了怎样
18:58
for us to perhaps approach this differently,
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2158
以不同方式来处理 这个问题的机会?
19:00
and how can people at different organizations
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不同组织里的人该如何
19:04
who are looking to bring people in to positions of leadership,
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将员工引入领导职位?
19:08
how can we approach this differently so that we can begin to see
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我们该如何以不同的方式 来处理这一问题,
以便我们能够见到更多的有色人员 开始出现在这些职位上?
19:11
more people of color in these roles?
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19:14
RB: Sure.
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罗莎琳德: 当然。
19:15
It's been my experience
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我的经历是,
19:17
that I see tons of great, diverse talent coming in to companies,
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我见到很多非常棒的, 多元化的人才来到公司,
19:23
and then they're stuck.
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1999
然而,此后却开始陷入了困境。
19:25
And what I see is the pipeline is very weak at a certain level,
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我所见到的是,晋升渠道 在某个级别上非常有限。
19:29
and once it gets to the point of trying to decide on a succession plan
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一旦到了需要决定
19:34
for who's next in line for the big jobs,
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2428
谁来继任重要工作时,
19:37
there's this great talent that's like that mid-level manager area,
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3700
会有很棒的人才 出现在中层管理领域,
19:40
then there's a big gap,
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之后是一个巨大的缺口,
19:42
and then there's maybe two at the top.
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2142
然后在顶层也许会 有两个这样的人才。
19:44
And it puts a lot of pressure on those two on the top
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这就给这两个在顶层的人 施加了很大的压力。
19:47
to try and go down and grab those that are just,
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他们要试图在下层中找到那些
19:49
maybe been with the company for two to five years,
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在公司工作了只有 大概 2 至 4 年的人,
19:52
and lift them up.
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并提携他们。
19:54
So what I think about is:
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所以,我考虑的是:
19:55
How do we give extraordinary experiences
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我们该如何 把不寻常的经历提供给
19:59
to our youngest diverse talent
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2737
我们最年轻的, 具有多元背景的人才,
20:01
so that they can get that exposure early on
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2970
以便让他们尽早地 获得接触的机会,
20:04
and begin to develop early on just like their white peers?
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3893
尽早地开始发展, 就如他们的白人同辈一样?
20:08
And I think sometimes we celebrate too much
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3264
我认为,我们有时过早地颂扬
20:12
that they are part of the company,
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2572
他们是公司的一部分。
20:14
but what we need to celebrate is, where is their progression?
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3520
然而,我们需要颂扬的是 他们在何处取得了进步?
20:18
Where is their opportunity for growth?
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他们发展成长的机会在哪里?
20:20
Who's listening to them,
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1191
谁在倾听他们的声音?
20:21
and who has their hands on them?
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以及,谁在协助他们?
20:23
And one of the things that we're doing at Starbucks
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4167
在星巴克, 我们正在做的一件事是
20:27
is really having structured mentorship.
396
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师徒关系的结构化。
20:30
But the mentorship looks a lot more like being a sponsor.
397
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5336
但是,这种师徒关系看起来 更像是个人资助。
20:35
And so, our executive leaders will be responsible for the development
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行政执行领导们将对
我们年轻的 多元化人才的发展负责,
20:42
of our young, diverse talent
399
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2461
20:45
and making sure that they're getting that exposure and those opportunities.
400
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3591
以确保他们能够获得 接触机会和发展机遇。
20:48
And just imagine if you're a new hire in the company,
401
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3168
想象一下,如果你刚被公司雇用,
20:51
and someone wants to meet with you at a senior level once a month,
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4093
某个来自高层的人士 想要与你每月会面一次,
20:55
twice a year, even --
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1416
即使是,每年两次,
20:57
that's game-changing.
404
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这也将是决定性的改变。
20:58
And so we have to reach our young talent early,
405
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所以我们必须尽早地 接触到我们的年轻人才,
21:03
and now this pipeline has got to close.
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2815
而且,必须闭合这条渠道,
21:06
We've got to fill it up
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1524
必须将其填满,
21:07
and close this gap,
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1258
合拢沟壑,
21:08
because if not, I don't see a pathway
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2528
因为,如果不这样做的话, 我将无法想象出任何一条
21:11
for diverse executives, C-suite executives,
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3961
建设多元化的 高级管理层的途径。
21:15
in the next, I would say, three to five years,
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3074
我认为,在接下来的 3 至 5 年里,
21:18
I don't see a lot of placements happening.
412
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我将不会见到 大量这类职位的出现。
21:22
WPR: And are you hopeful in this moment?
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2384
惠特妮: 此刻你是否充满希望?
21:24
Do you feel like we are making progress towards this?
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3740
你是否觉得 我们正在为此取得进步?
21:29
RB: It's early days.
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1849
罗莎琳德: 现在还为时尚早,
21:31
I'm hopeful.
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但我对此充满希望。
21:34
I feel good about the conversations that are happening.
417
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我对现在所进行的对话感觉很好。
21:38
I'm seeing change in people thinking more about themselves
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我看到那些更多地为自己 着想的人正在改变,
21:44
when my white counterparts are questioning some of their actions.
419
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5291
我的白人同僚对他们的 一些行动开始产生质疑,
21:49
And so I feel like we can't let this moment leave us,
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4253
所以,我觉得我们不能让这个时刻,
以及我们从中学到的 东西离我们而去。
21:54
and what we're learning about it.
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21:55
I think what I'm really optimistic about
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真正让我感到乐观的是,
21:59
is that now I think more people will understand
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越来越多的人将会理解
22:02
that the less diverse and less inclusive we are,
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越是缺乏多元化和包容性,
22:07
it's more than a business imperative.
425
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这就越不仅仅是商业需求。
22:09
When we combine the pandemic
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当我们把它和疫情结合起来时,
22:12
and we see the inequities of a pandemic
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3367
我们看到疫情所带来的不平等
22:15
on a diverse community,
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1894
出现在了多元化的社区里。
22:17
and we talk about how that happens,
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我们谈论到那是如何发生的,
22:19
how people are underrepresented in health care,
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平等是怎样在医疗
22:23
underrepresented in their housing,
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和住房上未得到充分体现的。
22:26
they can see that this is a groundswell moment.
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他们可以看到这是 一个群情激愤的时刻。
22:30
And the more we realize that and talk about that complexity,
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只有当我们对它认识得更多, 对它的复杂性谈论得更多,
22:34
then the solutions begin to happen.
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解决方案才会出现。
22:36
And I think that's happening more and more,
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我认为这出现得越来越频繁,
22:39
so I'm optimistic about that,
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所以我对此非常乐观,
22:40
because we're looking at the ills of lack of diversity and inclusion,
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6299
因为我们正在思索因缺乏 多元化和包容性而产生的弊病,
22:47
and maybe looking at much broader solutions for it
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2965
正在考虑解决方案,
22:50
than what we have in the past.
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它将比过去的方案更加宽泛。
22:52
WPR: Thank you so much, Roz. This was such a meaningful conversation.
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惠特妮:非常感谢,罗兹。 这是一次非常有意义的谈话。
22:55
It was great to hear your insights.
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很高兴听到你的见解。
22:57
RB: Thank you.
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罗莎琳德:谢谢。
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