Let’s Reframe Cancel Culture | Sarah Jones | TED

翻译人员: Yip Yan Yeung 校对人员: Yanyan Hong

As a writer and performer,

作为一名作家和演员，

for years, I have been known for giving voice or voices

多年以来，我因为 通过所饰演的各种角色发声

to the many diverse characters I play onstage

而广为人知，

and, more recently, in my film “Sell/Buy/Date.”

最近，是通过我的电影 《买、卖和约会》（Sell/Buy/Date）。

My characters, these characters, some of whom you are about to meet,

我饰演的这些角色， 各位即将见到的这些角色，

are based on people from my real life,

都来自我现实生活中的人们，

including my very real mixed race family.

包括我多元化的家庭。

Like me.

比如我。

My name is Lorraine. Hi there, TED.

我叫洛林（Lorraine）。 TED 的各位好。

It's wonderful.

很棒。

I'm kvelling to be here with you all again.

我很高兴能再次来到这里，

Thank you for having me.

谢谢邀请。

Please don't AI me.

请不要以为我是个 AI。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

So Lorraine is based partly on a real relative of mine.

洛林的呈现真是 受到我家一位亲戚的启发。

But don't worry, I changed the names to protect the innocent

但别担心，我没用真名， 不中伤无辜，

and especially the guilty.

尤其是“有罪之人”。

Claro que sí. Hi, I'm Nereida.

Claro que sí（西语“当然可以”）。 大家好，我是内雷达（Nereida）。

Muy buenas tardes, everybody.

真是个美妙的下午啊，各位。

I am also from Sarah Jones's family, but I'm a little bit nervous

我也和萨拉·琼斯（Sarah Jones） 是一家人，但我有一点紧张，

because I was so excited to come back here to TED,

因为我也很高兴能回到 TED，

and then Sarah Jones was like,

但萨拉·琼斯说：

"We are going to be talking about how everyone is afraid of cancel culture."

“我们要聊一聊 大家怎么会害怕‘取消文化’。”

And I was like, "First of all,

我就想：“首先，

we are here speaking as people from different backgrounds.

我们要代表来自不同背景的人。

Are we even allowed to do that anymore?

我们真的还能这么做吗？

Like what if people confuse what we're doing

如果人们误以为我们的行为 是文化挪用，怎么办？

with cultural appropriation,

which is probably the fastest way to get us all canceled?

也许这就是让我们都 “被取消”的最快方式吧？

Oh, my God. No, thank you.”

我的天哪。不用了，谢谢。”

As you can hear, my characters have their own take on things,

你可以听出我的角色 处理事物有自己的方式，

but I had a very personal experience of cancel culture,

但我本人对“取消文化”有切身的体会，

and I wanted to share about it here.

我想在此与大家分享。

And I’m hoping that if we’re willing to really talk about all of this,

我希望如果我们真的愿意讨论这点，

maybe we can stop living in fear of it

也许我们就不会 生活在对它的恐惧之中，

and get at what's actually underneath it.

而是关注其背后的本质。

Now you’ve already met Lorraine and Nereida ...

你们已经见过洛林和内雷达了……

But you haven’t met me.

但你们还没有见过我。

Hi, I'm Bella.

大家好，我是贝拉（Bella）。

She/her pronouns.

以“她”为代词。

I’m a double major, feminism and philosophy,

我修了两个专业—— 女权主义和哲学，

and actually social justice.

其实是社会公正。

Just auditing.

只是旁听啦。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

But also I'm minoring in social media

但我还辅修了社交媒体，

with a concentration on notable TikTok memes.

细分专业为知名抖音表情包。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

But as far as, like, cancel culture with, like, older people ...

但说到长者面临的取消文化，

I mean, like, not to say that, like, you're all older,

我不是说你们都是老年人，

but, like, just some of you are more, like,

而是说有些观众可能

chronologically advanced ...

年龄上先行一步……

(Laughter)

（笑声）

people and, like, more successful, right?

也更成功，对吧？

So, like, obvi, you have, like, the most to lose, right?

你们也有更多可以失去的资本，对吧？

Um. So --

嗯……所以……

(Applause)

（掌声）

Bella makes an annoying but very good point, right?

贝拉说的忠言逆耳，对吧？

This is a global phenomenon

这是一个全球性的现象，

with immeasurable impact on culture, commerce.

对文化和商业的影响不可估量。

And I know, the feeling is over the past few years,

我知道过去几年里的感受是

there has suddenly been this rise

有一个人人都害怕的幽灵骤然出现。

of a terrifying specter that everybody has to fear.

But in my experience,

但以我的经历来看，

cancel culture actually hasn't been sudden,

取消文化其实并不是一蹴而就的，

and it is certainly not new.

也肯定不是件新鲜事。

If the definition of being canceled

如果“被取消”的定义就是

is being silenced, excluded,

被静音、被排挤、

disempowered and disinvited from the larger conversation,

被剥夺权利， 不被更大范围的对话所欢迎，

then for many of us,

那么对很多人来说，

cancel culture has defined our lives for most of history.

取消文化在以往大部分时间中 都定义着我们的人生。

I mean, spoiler alert, I'm Black.

剧透预警，我是黑人，

Also a woman.

也是个女人。

I have Latino relatives.

我有拉丁裔亲戚。

I'm even a little part Jewish.

我甚至还有点犹太血统，

I know what it is to have cancellation baked into who I am.

我知道“取消”铸就我这个人 是什么感觉。

So some of our experiences down through history

有些人的过往经历

have amounted to a kind of pre-cancellation.

类似还没有被称为“取消”的取消。

It's only now that this new kind of cancellation

只是到了现在，这种新型的取消

has begun to impact the powerful and dominant

才开始影响到有权有势之人，

with the pre-canceled folk saying,

而那些早就被取消的人们说道：

"Hey, this system has been failing a lot of us for centuries.

“嘿，这个体制已经让我们 这么多人失望了几百年了。

So now it's our turn.

现在轮到我们了。

We're going to take justice into our own hands

我们现在要伸张正义，

and cancel you."

取消你们。”

And I agree that we need the equity and justice our laws promise

我同意我们需要法律承诺

却经常无法保障的公平和正义。

but often don't deliver.

For example, harmful and even criminal behavior,

比如，有害，甚至是违法行为，

when committed by powerful people,

如果是由有权有势的人犯下，

has often gone completely unpunished.

总是可以完全脱罪。

And in situations like that, yeah,

在这种情况下，没错，

cancel culture can at least offer some form of restitution.

取消文化至少是一种补偿的方式。

Now that said, as a system, it's far from perfect.

虽然作为一种体制， 这远远达不到完美的程度。

I mean, once people are canceled,

人们一旦被取消了，

how are we actually holding them accountable?

我们怎么能让他们负责任呢？

Like there are those creepy comedians

那些奇葩的喜剧演员

or CEOs who might have to hole up in their mansions for a little while.

或者 CEO 也许就在 他们的豪宅里躲一阵子。

But before you know it, a lot of them are right back in Madison Square Garden

但你都来不及反应， 这些人就立马回到了麦迪逊广场花园

or otherwise in business.

或者其他赚钱的地方。

And meanwhile, the larger systems that created them keep right on going.

与此同时，创造了这些人的 那个庞大系统照转不误。

Now even worse, sometimes people

更糟的是有时候

who are the opposite of the Harvey Weinsteins of the world

世界各地的哈维·韦恩斯坦 （Harvey Weinsteins）们的对立面

can get lumped in and dragged

会被一网打尽，

as soon as one voice screams “cancellation” in a crowded theater.

只要有一个人 在拥挤的剧院中高喊出“取消”。

I mentioned my film "Sell/Buy/Date" earlier.

我之前提到了 我的电影《买、卖和约会》。

It was inspired by a play of the same name.

它是受到了同名戏剧的启发。

I even performed an early excerpt of it right here at TED.

我之前还在 TED 这里 表演过一个早期版本选段。

And it’s a one-person show that explores themes of women and sex and power

它是一出独角戏， 透过色情业的视角

through the lens of the sex industry.

探索女性、性和权力的主题。

But if you don't know my work, let me give you a little bit more context.

但如果你没听说过我的作品， 我来介绍一些背景信息。

Since I grew up watching racial, ethnic and other stereotypes,

由于我是看着人种、种族 和其他刻板印象长大的，

or no images of us at all,

或者根本没有我们的形象，

my work has always been about accurately portraying people

我的作品一直致力于 准确地描绘我们全部人类的画像。

in our full humanity.

And in the case of "Sell/Buy/Date,"

以《买、卖和约会》为例，

which was inspired by real people in the sex industry

取材于色情业的真实人员，

whom I had spent years getting to know

我花了多年了解他们，

and who generously trusted me with their stories onstage,

他们慷慨地信任我 将他们的故事搬上舞台，

I was grateful my work was received

我很感激我的作品被当作

as a loving tribute to those diverse people and ideas.

送给这些各式各样的人 和想法的诚挚礼物。

That is, until the film version was announced in the press.

直到媒体报道了电影版。

The film was backed by a team of A-list Hollywood producers.

电影受到了一群 好莱坞顶级制片人的支持。

And so suddenly this was a much bigger platform.

平台一瞬间扩大了。

And people who did not know me and my connection to the topic

不认识我、不了解 我与这个主题的渊源的人们

assumed I was a cultural appropriator with bad intentions,

默认我是个不怀好意的文化挪用者，

and suddenly I was under brutal attack.

瞬间我就被喷得狗血淋头。

I mean, strangers from all over the internet

全网的陌生人冲着我本人来，

were coming for me personally,

threatening my funders,

威胁我的资助人，

promising to cancel anyone associated with my film.

保证要“取消”每一个 与我的电影有关的人。

Why?

为什么？

Well, these cancelers were actually concerned sex workers.

这些“取消者”其实是 忧心忡忡的性工作者。

They were afraid my film would be disrespectful

他们担心我的电影会不尊重

to the already very marginalized people in the sex industry.

身处色情业中 已经非常边缘化的人们。

And I get that.

我理解。

But before I could even make the film

但在我按计划拍摄这部电影、

and include the voices of sex workers, as I had always planned,

收录性工作者的心声之前，

they said I had no right to tell my story since I'm not in the industry myself.

他们就说我没有资格讲述我的故事， 因为我并没有亲身处于这个行业中。

And they were more than willing to destroy me and my career.

他们巴不得摧毁我和我的事业。

Ultimately, I hung in there.

但我最后还是坚持了下来。

I made the film, which shows me wrestling with these issues,

我拍了这部电影， 展示了我和这些问题的抗争，

and it was critically acclaimed by the “New York Times.”

受到了《纽约时报》的高度评价。

But along the way,

但在此过程中，

I, the film and the very people it was trying to serve

我、这部电影和它描绘的人群

all suffered harm that may never be undone.

都受到了无法磨灭的伤害。

I've lost friendships and opportunities that can never be restored.

我失去了无法修复的友谊和机会。

But even worse, the distraction of the cancellation

更糟糕的是，取消造成的干扰

pulled focus from the goal

让目标背离了为色情业人士正名。

of destigmatizing people in the sex industry.

And that is another huge problem with cancel culture,

取消文化还有一个大问题，

is that at its worst it can end up

最严重的情况就是它最终

hurting the very people it's trying to help.

伤害了它想要帮助的那群人。

And even at its best,

即使是最正面的情况，

it can still fuel this continuous loop of fear.

还是滋长了无尽的恐惧循环。

Like there are the marginalized folks who fear very understandably

那些被边缘化的人 顺理成章地会害怕

that they'll be disempowered yet again.

他们会再次被剥夺权力。

And then there are the people who are in power

还有拥有权力的人

and fear losing that power.

担心失去权力，

Or they secretly feel like they're being indicted

或者他们心底认为 他们会被人指指点点，

rather than invited into a conversation.

而不是加入人们的对话。

And nobody is really evolving under circumstances like that.

在这种情况下， 没有人会取得进步。

Meanwhile, the larger culture of inequality not only isn't improving,

与此同时，不平等的大环境 不仅没有得到改善，

it's actually getting worse out here

反而愈演愈烈，

because everybody's just reacting from their amygdala.

因为人们在恐惧之下不能自已。

So ...

那么……

What's the solution?

有什么办法呢？

Well, kind of like with my film,

就像我的电影那样，

I'm not here to tell you what you have to think.

我不是想说你该怎么想。

Yes, but I will listen.

但我会，听好了，

Even the nice Black girl is saying cancel culture is not the solution.

连黑人好女孩都说取消文化不是答案。

So I think we should all just say,

我觉得我们干脆就这么说：

"Poo poo poo. Glad we cleared that up.

“啪啪啪。解决了就好了。

We can all move on, thank God."

就这样吧，太好了。”

Yeah, well --

嗯……可以，但是洛林， 没那么简单，

Yes but, Lorraine, it’s not that simple

because many of us, you know,

因为很多人，

the pre-canceled people,

那些以前就被取消的人们，

we can't just move on

没有一个更公平、更好的社会， 我们不能就这样。

without a more equitable, a better society.

The good news is,

好消息，

I believe that starts less with looking at Twitter

我相信第一步不是刷推特，

and more with, well,

而是更多地看看你自己。

looking at the man in the mirror.

At the risk of invoking a very canceled pop icon, I'm sorry.

冒着自己成为非常“被取消”的 标杆人物的风险，不好意思。

Research shows that if we try looking really honestly at ourselves

研究表明如果我们 很坦诚地看待自己

and any biases or privilege we may have,

和我们身上的偏见或特权，

it could actually improve our quality of life.

就能提高我们的生活质量。

A recent piece in "Scientific American" about unlearning certain prejudices

《科学美国人》近期一篇 关于摒弃某些偏见的文章

pointed to research that -- wait for this --

提到了一项研究，听我说，

even with power,

即使你有权力，

when the dominant group fears losing that power,

当权的那群人害怕失去权力的时候，

they are more anxious,

他们就会更焦虑、

more angry, defensive, paternalistic,

更生气、更有戒备心、 更有家长作风，

which harms us all.

伤害我们所有人。

So whether we're the ones who fear being canceled

无论我们是害怕被取消的人，

or we're trying to hold others to account,

还是我们想让人承担责任，

we can all start a daily practice of being self-accountable.

我们都可以从每天 践行自我担当开始。

To notice, without judgment, any tendencies in ourselves

客观地关注我们自己身上

that could be hurtful to others.

可能会伤害他人的倾向。

And I'm not saying that unlearning our biases

我不是说摒弃偏见

will automatically shield us from cancellation,

会自动让我们不被抵制，

but we can at least try to own any mistakes we might be making.

但我们至少可以控制 我们可能要犯下的错误。

And we don’t have to do it alone.

我们不必独自面对。

We can surround ourselves with trusted people

我们可以身处信任的人之间，

who may be more aware of certain issues than we are.

他们可能比我们自己 更能发现一些问题。

Think of them as your own personal cancel counsel.

把他们当作你的私人“取消”顾问。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

Yeah? OK.

好吗？好的。

Lastly, let’s say we’re the ones doing the canceling.

最后，假如我们是去抵制的那些人。

Looking honestly at ourselves can keep us from automatically assuming

坦诚地看看自己， 可以让我们避免默认

the worst in people who could be well-meaning.

只看到别人的恶劣之处， 也许人家是善意的。

Now I know, I know. Don’t @ me.

我知道，我知道。不要 @ 我。

A lot of these people out here getting canceled do not mean well.

很多被抵制的人可不是善意的。

Or even if they do,

即使他们确实是善意的，

good intentions might not help much

一个陌生人问能不能碰碰你的头发， 这种“善意”也没什么用处。

when a stranger asks if they can touch your hair.

I mean, unless that stranger is Jason Momoa.

除非这人是 杰森·莫玛（Jason Momoa）。

Just saying.

开个玩笑。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

He has my consent.

我同意了。

But the point is,

但问题是，

we don't just want to ignore thoughtless missteps or worse.

我们不想忽视轻率的 错误或更糟的后果。

But I do believe even alongside the painful inequities,

但我相信即使有痛苦的不平等现象，

we are still mostly just people

我们大都只是想做一些正确的事。

who are trying to do the right thing.

And if we are falling short of that,

如果我们做不到这一点，

banishment alone doesn't actually solve the problem.

单靠“流放”也不是解决办法。

It just creates more hurt and angry people.

徒增伤害和愤怒的人。

Now, I'm hoping that without pretending

我希望不再粉饰

this is an even playing field,

这是一个公平的环境，

that we can still empathize with each other just a little bit more.

这样我们还能与他人 再感同身受一点点。

Maybe you can even become the cancel counsel to someone

也许你甚至可以成为本来 你要抵制的人的“取消”顾问。

you would otherwise have written off.

Invite them to share where they were trying to come from,

请他们分享他们的本意，

and then show them any biases they might have been blind to.

告诉他们一些 他们没有看见的偏见。

I'm not saying it's easy.

我不是说这是一件简单的事。

I know a lot of us are really tired,

我知道很多人已经精疲力竭，

but I also think we would be amazed at how connecting to someone on that level

但我也相信我们可以惊喜地 见证与这类人群建立联结将如何

could take a hurtful event

将一个伤害他人的事件

and turn it into a chance for healing and real progress.

转变成一个治愈 和真正取得进步的机会。

Now, listen, I'm --

我不是说我们可以变得完美，

I'm not saying any of us will ever be perfect,

but maybe we can try to give each other and ourselves

但也许我们可以 试着互相，也给我们自己

the grace of assuming good intentions

相信善意的机会，

while still doing the work

同时继续努力，

that acknowledges how far we have to go.

证明我们还有多长的路要走。

Thank you.

谢谢。

(Applause)

（掌声）