How to Lead With Radical Candor | Kim Scott | TED

譯者: Lilian Chiu 審譯者: 麗玲 辛

How can you all say what you mean

各位要如何表達自己的意思，

without being mean?

且不冒犯到對方？

I started thinking about this back in 1999.

我從 1999 年就開始 思考這個問題。

I had started a software company,

那時我成立了一家軟體公司，

and I came into the office one day,

有一天我進到辦公室，

and about half the people in the company

發現全公司約一半的人 都轉寄了同一篇文章給我，

had sent me the same article

about how everyone would rather have a boss

內容在講，大家都寧願他們的老闆

who is really mean

很刻薄，但是有能力，

but competent,

完全是個渾蛋，但有能力；

a total jerk, but competent,

than one who is really nice but incompetent.

而不是人很好但無能。

And I thought, "Gosh,

我心想：「天啊，

are they sending me this because they think I'm a jerk

他們轉寄這篇給我是因為他們 認為我是個渾蛋，還是無能？」

or because they think I'm incompetent?"

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

And surely, those are not my only two choices.

當然，我的選項不只這兩個。

Now, I went to business school

我讀過商學院，

and there, I learned exactly nothing about management.

在那裡，我完全沒有學到管理。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

But I did learn one really important thing.

但我確實學到了一件很重要的事。

All of life's hardest problems can be solved

人生中所有最難搞的問題都可以 用一個好的二乘二框架來解決。

with a good two-by-two framework.

So that is how I started thinking about this problem.

我就這麼開始思考這個問題了。

I was unwilling to let go of my desire to show that I cared personally.

我不願放棄表達我個人關懷的渴望。

That is what, for me, gave work meaning.

對我來說，這是我工作的意義。

But I also had to learn how to challenge directly,

但我也必須學習如何直接挑戰，

and I had to learn how to do both at the same time.

且我必須學習如何同時做到這兩者。

And over time,

隨時間，我開始把同時 關心對方又挑戰對方視為是

I came to think about caring and challenging at the same time

as radical candor.

「徹底坦率」。

Now, the easiest way to understand what radical candor is,

若要理解什麼是徹底坦率， 最簡單的方法是去想想

is to think about what happens

當我們或多或少在某個方面 搞砸時，會出現什麼情況，

when we mess up on one dimension or another,

as we are all bound to do from time to time.

所有人偶爾都會遇到這種狀況的。

Sometimes we remember to challenge directly,

有時，我們記得要直接挑戰對方，

but we forget to show that we care personally.

但忘了表達我們個人的關心。

And this I call obnoxious aggression.”

我稱之為「惡意攻擊」。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

Anybody ever seen any obnoxious aggression?

有人遇過惡意攻擊嗎？

And this is a problem.

這是個問題。

Obnoxious aggression is a problem because it hurts people.

惡意攻擊是個問題，因為它會傷人。

Primarily, it's a problem because it hurts people.

它是個問題的主要原因在於它會傷人。

But it's also a problem because it's inefficient.

但另一個原因在於它的低效率。

If I act like a total jerk to you,

如果我在你面前表現得完全是個渾蛋，

then you're likely to go into fight-or-flight mode in your brain,

你的大腦可能會進入「戰或逃」模式，

and then you literally cannot hear what I'm saying.

你就無法聽到我在說什麼了。

So I'm just wasting my breath.

所以我只是在浪費我的口水。

And then there's a third,

惡意攻擊還有第三個更隱微的問題。

more subtle problem with obnoxious aggression.

I don't know about you, but for me,

我不知道各位如何，但對我來說，

when I realize I've acted like a jerk,

當我意識到自己表現得像個渾蛋時，

it is not my instinct to go the right way on "care personally."

我的直覺不是改用正確方法， 「個人關懷」。

Instead, it's my instinct to go the wrong way on "challenge directly."

反之，我會直覺採用 錯誤方法，「直接挑戰」。

"Oh, it's no big deal. It doesn't really matter."

「喔，沒什麼大不了的，無所謂。」

And then I wind up in the worst place of all -- “manipulative insincerity.”

然後我會落到最糟糕的狀況 ——「虛與委蛇」。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

If obnoxious aggression is front-stabbing,

如果惡意攻擊是正面捅你一刀，

manipulative insincerity is back-stabbing.

虛與委蛇就是從背後捅你。

It's passive aggressive behavior.

那是消極的侵略行為。

This is where all the most toxic kinds of workplace behavior or frankly,

此時，所有最有害的 職場行為，或坦白說，

behavior at home in any relationship that you have in any part of your life,

在家庭中，一生中任何關係裏 最有害的行為就會不知不覺出現。

creep in.

And it is fun to tell stories about obnoxious aggression

講述關於惡意攻擊 和虛與委蛇的故事會很有趣，

and manipulative insincerity,

because this is where the drama is.

因為很有戲劇性。

However, the vast majority of us

然而，我們大多數人

make the vast majority of our mistakes in this last quadrant

犯下的大多數錯誤， 都落在最後這個象限裡，

where we do remember to show that we care personally.

此時我們確實記得要表達我們 個人關懷，因為，要知道，

Because you know what?

大多數人其實都是挺好的人。

Most people are actually pretty nice people.

所以我們的確記得表達個人關懷，

So we do remember to show that we care personally,

but we're so worried about not hurting someone's feelings

但我們很擔心會傷到別人的感情，

or not offending someone

或冒犯別人，

that we fail to tell them something

所以我們沒能告訴他們 長遠來看他們最好要知道的事。

they'd be better off knowing in the long run.

And this is what I call “ruinous empathy.”

我稱之為「濫情同理」。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

Empathy is a good thing, ruinous empathy is not.

同理心是一件好事，濫情同理則不是。

In order to explain to you what I mean by this,

為了讓大家明白我的意思， 我要講個故事，內容是關於

I want to tell you a story about possibly the most painful moment of my career.

我職涯中可能算是最痛苦的時刻。

I had just hired this person, Alex.

我剛僱用了艾力克斯這個人， 我們就稱他為艾力克斯。

We'll call this person Alex.

And I liked Alex a lot.

我很喜歡艾力克斯。

Alex was smart,

艾力克斯很聰明，

Alex was charming, Alex was funny.

艾力克斯很迷人，艾力克斯很風趣。

Alex would do stuff like,

艾力克斯會做這種事： 我們在外面辦主管的活動，

we’re at a manager offsite playing one of those endless get-to-know-you games.

要玩那種無止盡的認識彼此遊戲。

And Alex was the person who had the courage to raise their hand

而艾力克斯這種人就敢舉手並說：

and to say, "I can tell that everyone is really stressed out.

「我看得出來大家壓力都很大。

I've got an idea.

我有個點子，能讓我們更了解彼此，

It’ll help us get to know each other better,

and it'll be really fast."

且會速戰速決。」

Whatever Alex's idea was, if it was fast, we were down with it.

不論艾力克斯的點子是什麼， 只要能速戰速決，我們都好，

Alex says, "Let's just go around the table

艾力克斯說：「讓我們照順序

and confess what candy our parents used when potty-training us."

坦白說出我們的父母在訓練我們 上廁所時用的是什麼顏色的糖果。」

Really weird, but really fast.

真的很詭異，但也真的速戰速決。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

Weirder yet, we all remembered -- Hershey Kisses right here.

更詭異的是，我們都記得—— 我的是好時之吻巧克力。

And then for the next ten months,

在接下來的十個月裡，

every time there was a tense moment in a meeting,

凡是會議中出現緊繃的時刻時，

Alex would whip out just the right piece of candy

艾力克斯就會馬上在對的時刻 拿出對的糖果給對的人。

for the right person at the right moment.

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

So Alex brought a little levity to the office.

艾力克斯為辦公室 帶來了一點輕鬆的氣氛。

Everybody loved working with Alex.

大家都喜歡和艾力克斯一起工作。

One problem with Alex.

但艾力克斯有一個問題。

Alex was doing terrible work.

艾力克斯的工作做得很糟糕，爛透了。

Absolutely terrible.

Sort of creative and unusual, but tons of sloppy mistakes.

可說是有創意、不同尋常， 但有一堆粗心的錯誤。

I was so puzzled.

我很困惑，無法理解到底怎麼回事，

I couldn't understand what was going on,

because Alex had this incredible resume, this great history of accomplishments.

因為艾力克斯的履歷很漂亮， 過去有很多很棒的成就。

I learned much later that Alex was smoking pot

很久以後我才知道艾力克斯 每天要在洗手間抽大麻三次，

in the bathroom three times a day,

which maybe explained all that candy that he had.

這也許能解釋為什麼他有那些糖果。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

But I didn't know any of that at the time.

但我當時都不知道這些。

All I knew is that Alex would hand stuff in to me

我只知道艾力克斯把東西 交給我時，眼中會有種羞愧。

with shame in his eyes.

He knew his work wasn't nearly good enough,

他知道他沒有把工作做好，

and I would say something to him along the lines of,

我會對他類似這樣的話：

"Oh, Alex, you're so smart,

「喔，艾力克斯，你很聰明又很棒， 大家都喜歡和你一起工作。

you're so awesome, everybody loves working with you.

This is a great start.

這是很好的開始。

Maybe you can make it just a little bit better."

也許你可以讓它變得再更好一點。」

當然，他始終沒這麼做。好。 咱們暫停一下，這是怎麼回事？

Which, of course, he never did.

OK, so let's pause for a moment.

What was going on there?

Part of it was truly ruinous empathy.

其中一部分真的是濫情同理， 我是真心喜歡艾力克斯，

I really did like Alex,

and I really did not want to hurt his feelings.

且我真的不想傷到他的感受。

But if I'm honest with myself,

但，如果我對自己誠實的話， 其實背後還有其他的隱憂，

there was something more insidious going on as well,

because Alex was popular and Alex was sensitive,

因為艾力克斯很受歡迎， 且艾力克斯很敏感，

and there was part of me that was afraid

有一部分的我很害怕

that if I told Alex in no uncertain terms that his work wasn't nearly good enough,

如果我毫不含糊地告訴艾力克斯

他沒有把工作做好，他可能會 很沮喪，甚至可能會哭起來，

he would get upset, he might even start to cry.

And then everyone would think I was a big you-know-what.

然後大家都會認為 我是個大（你知道的），

And so the part of me that was worried about my reputation as a leader,

所以，有一部分的我 會擔心我這個領導者的名聲，

that was the manipulative insincerity part.

那就是「虛與委蛇」的部分。

The part of me that was worried about Alex's feelings,

另一部分的我， 在擔心艾力克斯的感受，

that was the ruinous empathy part.

那則是「濫情同理」的部分。

So this kind of toxic mixture goes on for about ten months,

所以，這種很有害的組合 持續了約十個月，

and eventually the inevitable happens.

最終，該來的還是來了。

And I realize that if I don't fire Alex,

我意識到，如果我不開除艾力克斯，

I'm going to lose all my best performers,

我會失去所有表現最佳的員工，

because not only have I been unfair to Alex

因為我不僅對艾力克斯不公平，

not to tell him so that he could fix things,

沒告訴他事實，讓他去做調整，

I've been unfair to the whole team.

我也對整個團隊很不公平。

他的交付項目拖延， 導致他們的交付項目拖延。

Their deliverables were late because his deliverables were late.

They couldn’t spend as much time on their work as they needed to

他們需要多花點時間 在他們的工作上，卻無法，

because they were constantly having to redo his work.

因為他們經常得重做他的工作。

And the people who were the best performers on my team,

而我的團隊中表現最佳的人就會辭職。

they were just going to quit.

他們會想到一個能讓他們 好好發揮的地方工作。

They wanted to be able to work at a place where they could do their best work.

And so I sat down to have a conversation with Alex

於是我找艾力克斯坐下來好好談談，

that I should have started, frankly, 10 months previously.

老實說，我早在十個月前 就該這麼做了。

And when I finished explaining to him where things stood,

當我向他解釋完了狀況之後，

他把椅子從桌邊推開，

he kind of pushed his chair back from the table,

he looked me right in the eye and he said, "Why didn't you tell me?"

他直視著我的眼睛，說： 「你之前為什麼不告訴我？」

And as that question was going around in my head with no good answer,

當我在腦中不斷思考這個問題， 且還想不出答案時，

he looked at me again and he said, "Why didn't anyone tell me?

他又看著我，說：「為什麼 之前沒有任何人告訴我？

I thought you all cared about me."

我以為你們都關心我。」

And now I realized that by not telling Alex,

現在我才了解，我沒告訴艾力克斯，

thinking I was being so nice sparing his feelings,

自以為我很好心，不想傷他的感情，

he's now getting fired as a result of it.

結果反而是讓他被開除。

Not so nice after all.

到頭來，不算好心吧。

It was a terrible moment in my career,

那是我職涯中非常糟的一刻，

but it was too late to save Alex.

但已經來不及拯救艾力克斯了。

Even Alex at this point agreed he should go

此時，艾力克斯也認為自己該走了，

because his reputation on the team was just shot.

因為他在團隊中的名聲都毀掉了。

All I could do in that moment was make myself a very solemn promise

那一刻，我唯一能做的 就是鄭重對自己許下承諾，

that I would never make that mistake again,

誓言不再犯同樣的錯，

and that I would do everything in my power

且我會盡我一切所能

to help other people avoid making that mistake.

幫助別人不要犯下這個錯誤。

And that is why I'm here, talking to you all today.

這就是我今天來這裡演講的原因。

Now I want to talk to you not only about how this works,

我想和大家談的，不只是

一對一關係中的 「濫情同理」如何發生。

how ruinous empathy works in one-on-one relationships.

It also works on team culture, or doesn’t work.

它也適用於團隊文化，或者不適用。

Often, I’ll work with a team, and they start out radically candid.

通常，我會和團隊合作， 剛開始都是徹底坦率。

Small group of people, they know each other really well.

一小群人，他們很了解彼此，

他們很容易表達 他們的關心和挑戰對方。

It’s kind of easy for them to show they care and challenge.

因此，他們能取得 一些成果並有所成長，

nd then because of that, they find some success and they grow,

and then they succumb to the gravitational pull of ruinous empathy,

接著，他們屈服於 濫情同理的引力拉扯，

and then things start going wrong.

事情就開始出錯了。

But nobody wants to be mean,

但沒有人想當壞人，沒有人 想跟別人說，大家都很焦慮。

nobody wants to talk to anybody else, everybody's getting really agitated.

然後，終於有人突然發聲 把該說的說出來了。

And then finally somebody bursts out and says the thing.

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

Anybody ever see that happen?

有人見過這種事嗎？

Maybe not in the best way, but it works.

這方式也許不是最好的，但它有效。

And because it works, they do it again, but maybe they do it a little more.

因為有效，他們會再次做一次， 但也許會做得更多一點。

And because everybody else is so determined to be nice,

而且因為其他人都很堅決要當 好人，他們會說類似這樣的話：

they say things like, "Oh, she didn't mean any harm,"

「喔，她沒有惡意」

or, "Oh, he's a good guy."

或「喔，他是個好人」。

And then, the next thing you know, this person is promoted now.

接下來你就發現這個人升遷了。

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

Anybody ever see this happen?

有人遇過這種事嗎？

There comes a moment on every team's history

每個團隊的歷史上 都會有這樣的一刻：

when the jerks begin to win,

渾蛋開始佔上風，

and that is when the culture begins to lose.

就是文化開始落敗的時候。 因為接下來會發生什麼事？

Because what happens next?

Everybody moves down to manipulative insincerity.

大家都向下移到「虛與委蛇」。

They're talking badly about this person behind this person's back,

他們在那個人的背後說他的壞話，

but they are not talking to the person.

但他們都不直接跟那個人說。

It does not have to be this way, folks.

各位，事情不見得要變成這樣。

If you notice this happening,

如果你注意到你的團隊 開始飄移向濫情同理，

your team sort of drifting over to ruinous empathy,

it's possible to move over to radical candor.

是有可能移向徹底坦率。 那無法解決所有的問題。

That's not going to solve all problems.

People will still make a mistake,

大家仍然會犯錯，

但你可以跟他們談他們犯的錯誤， 以幫助他們改善的方式來談。

but you can tell them about that mistake in a way

that allows them to make things better.

Now, it's not only the culture on teams where this happens.

這種情況不只會發生在團隊文化中。

Sometimes it happens in a whole society.

有時會發生在整個社會中。

Sometimes it turns out that a whole society is polarized.

有時，事實證明， 整個社會都是兩極化的。

Did anybody ever know such such a society?

有人見過這樣的社會嗎？

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

We’re polarized, and we’re not talking to each other.

我們很兩極化，我們不與彼此交談。

We're talking about each other,

我們只談論彼此，且都和 意見相同的人混在一起。

and we're sticking with the people who agree with us.

And I am no better than the rest of us on this.

在這方面，我並沒有比其他人好。

I recently was invited to give a talk at a company

我最近受邀到一家公司演講，

whose policies I disagreed with pretty vehemently,

我非常不認同他們的政策，

and I was tempted not to go.

我很想就別去了。

And then I thought, that does not seem like it's in the spirit of radical candor.

然後我想，這樣似乎不符合 「徹底坦率」精神。

In fact, I believe very deeply

事實上，我深信，

that unchallenged beliefs become prejudices.

沒有受到挑戰的信念會變成偏見。

So I needed to go to this place and talk to these people,

所以我得去這個地方和這些人談談，

not because I was going in prepared to change my mind,

不是因為我準備好要改變 想法，老實說，我沒這打算。

if I'm honest, I was not.

But I also wasn't going in trying to change their mind.

但我也不打算去改變他們的想法。

我當時的想法是， 如果我能了解他們的觀點，

I was going in thinking if I understand their point of view,

it will help me deepen my thinking

那能幫助我深化我的思維，

and maybe I can find some common ground with these people.

也許我還可以和這些人 找到一些共同點。

You're going to hear more about common ground.

等下會聽到更多這方面的內容。

Maybe I can learn to like these people.

也許我可以學會喜歡這些人。

And as I gave the talk, I got to the Q-and-A and it was going really well.

我的演說進行到了 問答時間，非常順利。

We were having a great conversation,

我們進行了很棒的談話，

and there was this voice inside my head,

我腦中有個聲音，

like screaming at me, saying,

彷彿在對我大叫，

"Kim, these people are not your enemies.

說：「金，

這些人不是你的敵人。

These are your fellow Americans."

這些人是你的美國同胞。」

And it really made me take a deep breath.

這真的讓我深深吸了一口氣。

I was like, why would I not have come to speak with these people?

我心想，為何我之前不想 來跟這些人談談？

After the conference was over,

會議結束後，有個人來找我，說：

somebody came up to me and said,

"Kim, do you believe this, do you believe that?"

「金，你信不信這個或那個？」

我說，我信。

I said, yes, I did.

And they kind of cocked their head and they said, "Huh.

他們歪著頭，說：「嗯。

You don't seem like an evil person."

你似乎不是邪惡的人。」

(Laughter)

（笑聲）

And I would have thought that person was ridiculous,

我本來會認為那個人很可笑的，

except that I had just had pretty much the same thought myself

但我自己五分鐘前 卻也有差不多的想法。

five minutes previously.

So how does this work?

所以，這是怎麼回事？

Some of the best relationships of my career

我職涯中有一些最棒的關係， 對象是我不認同的人。

have happened with people who I disagree with.

因為我關心這些人，

And because I care about these people,

it's easier for me to challenge them.

我就更容易去挑戰他們。

And because I challenge them, it's easier to care.

而因為我會挑戰他們， 就更容易關心。

It's a virtuous cycle, radical candor.

徹底坦率是個良性的循環。

And the reason why it works is that we, both of us,

它之所以行得通，

是因為我們雙方都相信

believe that the floor on the "care personally" dimension

徹底坦率的「個人關懷」 維度是以尊重為基礎。

of radical candor is respect.

Respect is something we owe to everyone.

我們應該要尊重每個人。

When we can show respect and common human decency,

若我們能表現尊重和一般人的禮度，

we actually wind up loving the people who we work with,

我們就會愛那些和我們共事的人，

not in the HR-disaster sense of the word that we read so much about today,

不是現在大家常在談的、會給 人力資源部帶來災難的那種愛，

but in the true sense of collegiality.

而是指同事真正合作的那種愛。

So to understand how to do this,

因此，為了了解這要怎麼做，

I want to explain to you the radical candor order of operations

我想向大家解釋 「徹底坦率」的運作順序，

going back to this Alex story.

讓我們回到艾力克斯的故事。

I failed pretty much on all dimensions with Alex.

艾力克斯的事，我幾乎 在各方面都搞砸了。

I failed to solicit feedback.

我沒有徵求反饋意見。

Radical candor, no matter who you are,

徹底坦率，無論你是誰， 都應該從徵求反饋意見開始。

should always start with soliciting feedback.

Don't dish it out before you prove you can take it.

在證明你能承受之前， 別把它搬出來。

對艾力克斯，我沒有這麼做， 咱們來給我評分一下吧，

But I didn't do that with Alex, so let's give me a report card.

I failed to solicit praise,

我沒有取得稱讚，

and I failed to ask Alex what I could do or stop doing

也沒有問艾力克斯

我能做什麼或別做什麼，

that might make it easier for him to work with me.

這可能讓他更容易與我共事。

Maybe, just maybe,

也許，只是也許，

I was doing something that was frustrating Alex so much,

我當時做了什麼， 讓艾力克斯感到非常挫折，

he was forced to toke up in the bathroom three times a day.

迫使他每天要去洗手間抽大麻三次。

I don't know because I never asked him, right?

我不知道，因為我從沒問過他， 對吧？所以要取得回饋意見。

So solicit feedback.

You also need to give praise.

你也得給予稱讚。我稱讚 艾力克斯根本就是做假動作。

The kind of praise I gave to Alex was really just a head fake.

And you need to tell people when their work isn't nearly good enough.

當別人沒把工作做好時， 你得告訴他們。

But because I failed to do that,

但因為我沒有做到這一點， 就無法衡量我的反饋意見有何效果。

I couldn't possibly gauge how my feedback was landing.

So I'm going to give myself an incomplete there.

這部分我給自己的評分是未完成。 我說的衡量反饋意見是什麼意思？

So what do I mean by gauge the feedback?

This is where you can use this framework.

在這裡就可以使用這個框架。

Remember, radical candor gets measured not in the speaker’s mouth

切記，徹底坦率不是 用說者說了什麼來衡量，

but at the listener's ear.

而是聽者聽到了什麼。

But how do you know what's going on inside someone else's ear?

但你怎麼知道別人聽到了什麼？

You can use this framework: if the other person seems sad,

你可以用這個框架： 如果對方看起來很傷心，

that is your cue to move up on the "care personally" dimension.

那就是在提示你在 「個人關懷」維度應該要向上移動。

If the other person seems mad,

如果對方看起來很氣，

that is also your cue to move up on the “care personally” dimension.

那也是在提示你，在 「個人關懷」維度應該要向上移動。

But it’s pretty hard to care personally about someone who’s yelling at you.

但要對一個正在吼你的人 表達個人關懷是很難的，

So what can you do?

那你能怎麼做？

In these moments, you're probably mad back.

在這種時刻，你可能也很氣對方，

When you're furious, get curious.

當你生氣時，表現好奇。 或，表現好奇，不要生氣，

Or get curious, not furious,

if you're batting above average.

如果你的表現高於平均的話。

Try to move up, "Why is this person so mad?"

試著向上移動： 「這個人為什麼這麼氣？」

Last but not least, there are times when you'll say the thing.

最後一點，但也很重要，有時，

你把話說出來， 你鼓起勇氣說出來，

You'll work up your courage to say the thing,

and then the person will just brush you off.

接著這個人對你不屑一顧。

這就是在提示你， 在「直接挑戰」維度上應該要

This is your cue to move out further than you're comfortable going

on the "challenge directly" dimension.

進一步走出你的舒適圈。

So if you can all go forth and be radically candid,

因此，如果你們能勇往直前， 做到徹底坦率，

you will have better relationships, one-on-one relationships.

你就有更好的一對一關係。

You can help build a better culture at work

你能在工作上 協助建立更好的文化，

在社會上協助建立交集。

and you can help build confluence in society.

Thank you all so much.

非常謝謝大家。

(Applause and cheers)

（掌聲和歡呼）