Courage, the Most Important Virtue | Bari Weiss | TED

翻译人员: Jinnie Sun 校对人员: Bruce Wang

Let me begin with some confessions.

首先，让我坦白一下。

I voted for Mitt Romney in 2012.

我在 2012 年为持米特·罗姆尼 （Mitt Romney）投了票。

And I voted for Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden, which is shocking, I know.

我也为希拉里·克林顿（Hillary Clinton) 和乔·拜登（Joe Biden）投了票，我知道这非常令人震惊。

I'm pro-choice, and I think the European laws are sensible ones.

我支持选择权， 并且认为欧洲的法律是明智的。

I'm a very proud supporter of Israel,

我非常自豪自己是以色列的支持者，

even though I'm a critic of its current government.

尽管我也是以色列现任政府的批评者。

I think terrorists like Hamas and Hezbollah are evil,

我认为像哈马斯和真主党 这样的恐怖分子是邪恶的。

and there is a bright line between groups that aim to kill innocents

并且，旨在杀害无辜者的团体

and those that try to avoid doing so at all costs.

和不惜一切代价试图避免杀害无辜者 的团体之间有一条明确的界限。

I think that girls in Afghanistan shouldn't be sold into child marriages,

我认为，阿富汗的女孩 不应该在童婚中被售卖，

and that women in Iran should be free to show their hair in public

并且伊朗的妇女应该能够自由地 在公共场合露头发，

without fear of imprisonment or worse.

而不必担心被监禁或更糟糕的情况。

And that women in Somalia should not endure genital mutilation.

索马里的妇女不应该 忍受被切割生殖器官。

I believe that all people are created equal

我相信人人生而平等，

and created in the image of God,

是按照上帝的形象创造的，

but that all cultures are not equal.

但并不是所有文化都是平等的。

I believe in gay marriage, so much so that I'm actually in one myself.

我非常相信同性婚姻， 以至于我自己其实正在一段同性婚姻中。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

I believe that adults should make pretty much any decision they want

我相信成年人应该可以对自己的身体

about their bodies,

做出几乎任何他们想要的决定，

but that children should not.

但孩子不应该这样做。

I think the SAT is an imperfect but useful tool.

我认为 SAT（美国高考） 是一个不完美但有用的工具。

I think defunding the police is a very bad idea.

我认为削减警察的经费 是个非常糟糕的主意。

And that living in a safe neighborhood is among the truest forms of privilege.

生活在一个安全的社区中 是特权的最真实形式之一。

I think COVID probably came from a lab,

我认为 COVID 可能来自实验室，

and that, in retrospect,

并且回想起来，

locking kids out of school for two years was a big mistake.

两年不让孩子去上学 是一个大错误。

I think we should hire people based on their merit,

我认为我们应该根据 员工的价值来雇用他们，

but cast as wide a net as possible.

但要尽可能扩大筛选范围。

I don't want to eat bugs,

我不想吃虫子，

nor do I want to drink water full of microplastics,

也不想喝充满微塑料的水，

and I don't think there's anything coded right or left

而且我认为这两件事中不存在任何

about either of those things.

左右派的倾向。

I believe that equality of opportunity

我相信机会的平等，

and not equality of outcome

而不是结果的平等，

is the true measure of fairness.

才是衡量公平的真正标准。

I am repelled by ideologies that insist that our immutable characteristics

我厌恶那些意识形态， 它们坚持认为那些我们不变的特征

are more important than our character.

比我们的品格更重要。

I don't like riots,

我不喜欢骚乱，

I don't like mobs, and I hate lies.

我不喜欢暴民，我讨厌谎言。

And I love America for all of its flaws.

我爱美国的种种缺点。

I believe, in part because Americans are free to debate those flaws

部分因为美国人可以自由辩论这些缺陷，

and to strive for a more perfect union,

并努力建立更完美的联盟，

that it really is the last best hope on Earth.

这使我相信它确实是 地球上最后的最大希望。

(Applause)

（掌声）

The point in all of this is that I am really boring.

所有这一切的关键是 我真的是个很无聊的人。

Or at least I thought I was.

或者至少我以为我是。

I am, or at least until a few seconds ago in historical time,

我是，或者至少直到几秒钟前，

I used to be considered a standard-issue liberal.

我曾被认为是一个标准的自由派。

And yet somehow,

然而，不知何故，

in our most intellectual and prestigious spaces,

在我们最具思想和最负盛名的地方，

many of the ideas I just outlined and others like them,

我刚才概述的许多想法 以及其他类似的想法

have become provocative or controversial,

已经变得具有挑衅性或争议性，

which is really a polite way of saying unwelcome, beyond the pale.

这实际上是一种礼貌的说法， 表示它们不受欢迎、超出接受范围了。

Even bigoted or racist.

甚至被认为是偏执狂或种族主义者。

How?

怎么变成这样的？

How did these relatively boring views come to be seen as off-limits?

这些相对无聊的看法 是怎么被视为应被禁止的？

And how did that happen,

这是怎么发生的？

at least it seems to me,

且至少在我看来，

in the span of under a few years?

仅发生在几年的时间里。

Now the convenient answer, of course,

当然，现在最方便的答案

is the power of extreme activists.

是极端活动家的力量。

People who burn down businesses and police stations,

那些烧毁企业和警察局的人，

people who shut down bridges and highways,

关闭桥梁和高速公路的人，

people who harass their fellow students

骚扰同学

and shout down their professors.

并对教授大喊大叫的人。

People who vandalize,

破坏、亵渎

who desecrate or tear down monuments of national heroes.

或拆毁民族英雄纪念碑的人。

But do a handful of extreme activists really have the power

但是，少数极端活动家真的有能力

to dismantle the moral guardrails of a whole society,

拆除整个社会的道德防线，

to radically shift the Overton window

从根本上改变

of what is politically and socially acceptable?

政治和社会可接受范围的奥弗顿窗口吗？

I don't think so.

我不这么认为。

There has always been and always will be a fringe.

边缘群体一直存在，而且将永远存在。

The difference right now

现在的不同之处在于，

is that the fringe seems to be calling the shots.

边缘群体似乎在主导局面。

If you want to know why things have been turned upside down,

如果你想知道为什么事情被颠倒了，

why so many people are asking themselves if they've gone crazy,

为什么这么多人问自己是否疯了，

or if the world has,

或者世界是否疯了，

as they hear feminist groups justify rape as a tool of resistance;

当他们听到女权组织将强奸

合理化为抵抗的工具时；

as groups that call themselves anti-racist

当自称反种族主义的团体

advocate for a new kind of segregation;

主张一种新的种族隔离时；

as young, highly educated people

当年轻的、受过高等教育的人

chant the slogans of jihadi terrorist groups;

高呼圣战恐怖组织的口号时；

well, I ultimately don't think that's because of a few maniacs

我最终还是不认为这是因为有几个疯子

that are throwing paint on masterpieces in our museums.

正在往我们博物馆中的杰作泼油漆。

It's because they have been allowed to do so.

而是因为他们被允许这样做。

And the question is why?

问题是为什么？

Perhaps, to give the most generous read,

或许，用最慷慨的解读来看，

it's because the people shutting things down

这是因为让事物无法正常运行的人

claim to be doing so in the name of justice,

声称这样做是为了正义，

not in the name of nihilism.

而不是以无政府主义的名义。

And because we believe them.

然后因为我们相信他们，

Or perhaps it's because we told ourselves, "It's just a few nuts,

或者可能因为我们告诉自己：

“这只是一些疯子，

I don't need to get involved."

我不需要参与其中。”

Or maybe it's because people looked at their portfolio

或者可能是因为人们 看了看自己的理财产品，

and decided that they were doing great by the numbers.

并认为从数字上看它们表现不错。

And those torched stores?

那些被烧毁的商店？

Ah, they probably had insurance anyway.

啊，反正他们大概有保险。

Or because it was a headache.

或者是因为这个问题令人头疼。

Or because they're just kids.

或者因为他们只是孩子。

Or because, why die on that hill?

或者因为，为什么要死在那座山上？

Or maybe it was because we thought they had a point.

或者可能是因为我们认为 他们有自己的道理。

That America and the West really were guilty

美国和西方确实有错，

of all of the terrible things that they said,

关于他们说过的所有可怕的话，

or at least of some of them.

或者至少是其中一些话。

And though we wouldn't have torn down statues or shouted down speakers,

尽管我们不会拆除雕像， 也不会对发言者大喊大叫，

we lacked the conviction or the ideas to stop the people doing it.

我们还是缺乏阻止人们 这样做的信念或想法。

Or because maybe in the end we prized comfort over complexity.

或者也许因为最终我们更看重 舒适胜于复杂性。

I was going to say prized comfort over truth,

我本来想说的看重舒适胜于真理，

but the thing is, truth isn't something you pull out of the ground

但问题是，真相不是

like gold or diamonds.

像黄金或钻石那样 能从地里挖出来的东西。

It is a process sustained by a culture of questioning,

这是一个由质疑的文化维持的过程，

including self-questioning.

包括自我质疑。

Which is why right now it can look like the absolutists are winning.

这就是为什么现在看来 绝对主义者似乎在获胜。

(Applause)

（掌声）

My theory is that the reason we have a culture in crisis

我的理论是，我们的文化 之所以处于危机之中，

is because of the cowardice of people that know better.

是因为那些更了解情况的人的懦弱。

It is because the weakness of the silent,

这是因为沉默者的弱点，

or rather the self-silencing majority.

或者更确切地说，是自我沉默的多数人。

So why have we been silent?

那为什么我们一直保持沉默？

Simple.

简单。

Because it's easier.

因为它更容易。

Because speaking up is hard,

因为大声说出来很难，

it is embarrassing, it makes you vulnerable.

很尴尬，会让你变得脆弱。

It exposes you as someone who is not chill,

它把你暴露为一个不冷静的人，

as someone who cares a lot,

一个在意很多东西的人，

as someone who makes judgments,

一个对事情说三道四的人，

as someone who discerns between right and wrong,

一个辨别对与错、

between better and worse.

好与坏的人。

The reason Aristotle called courage the first virtue

亚里士多德之所以称勇气为第一美德，

is because it is the one

正是因为勇气

that makes all of the other virtues possible.

使所有其他美德成为可能。

Do you want to live in a world

你想生活在一个

that values justice, wisdom, compassion,

重视正义、智慧、同情心、

curiosity, rationality, equality

好奇心、理性、平等和

and the pursuit of truth?

追求真理的世界中吗？

I do.

我想。

But fighting to make sure we live in such a world is going to take courage.

但是，确保我们生活在这样的世界中 所需的奋斗需要勇气。

That first virtue.

那个第一美德。

I think one of the lessons of the past decade

我认为过去十年的教训之一是，

is that cowardice is perhaps more contagious than COVID.

懦弱可能比 COVID 更具传染性。

But so is courage,

但勇气也是如此，

and a singular example can serve

一个单一的例子可以

as a powerful means of transmission.

作为强大的传播手段。

So who are those examples?

那么这些例子是谁呢？

Each one of you, when I say the word courage,

当我说勇气这个词时，你们每个人

will have the ones that come to mind for you.

都会在脑中想到一些人。

But for me, for me, they are people like Salman Rushdie,

但是对我来说，

对我来说， 他们是像萨尔曼·拉什迪这样的人，

sentenced to death by the Iranian ayatollahs in 1989

他在 1989 年因写一部小说

for the sin of writing a novel.

被伊朗阿亚图拉判处死刑。

He lived under the shadow of a fatwa until two years ago,

他一直活在追杀令的 阴影下，直到两年前，

on a stage like this one, he was viciously stabbed.

在这样的一个舞台上， 他被恶毒地刺伤。

But he survived and undaunted,

但是他活了下来，毫不畏惧，

this week, of course, he published a book about it.

本周他出版了一本关于这件事的书。

Courage for me is someone like Pennsylvania Senator John Fetterman,

对我来说，勇气是像宾夕法尼亚州 参议员约翰·费特曼这样的人，

who insists that there is nothing contradictory

他坚持认为

about his progressive values

自己的进步价值观

and his belief that Hamas is a band of murderers that must be defeated.

和他认为哈马斯是一群 必须被击败的杀人犯的信念并不矛盾。

Now suffice it to say, this has not made him popular,

现在可以说， 这并没有让他受欢迎，

but he doesn't seem to care.

但他似乎并不在乎。

While a lot of other people have moved on out of political expediency,

尽管许多其他人出于 政治权宜之计已经转变立场，

his office in DC is the one that remains papered with photos

他在华盛顿特区的办公室仍然贴着

of all of the hostages.

所有人质的照片。

Courage to me

对我来说，勇气

looks like Stanford medical professor Dr. Jay Bhattacharya.

像斯坦福大学医学教授 杰伊·巴塔查里亚博士。

Jay studies the health and well-being of vulnerable populations for a living,

杰伊以研究弱势群体的健康和福祉为生，

and he foresaw the social and mental health crisis

他曾预见了 COVID 封锁后的

that would follow the COVID lockdowns.

社会和心理健康危机。

He said so, he explained it calmly.

他说了出来，他冷静地解释。

But for doing so, Twitter blacklisted him.

但是因此，Twitter 将他列入了黑名单。

YouTube censored him.

YouTube 审查了他。

The medical establishment ostracized and slandered him.

医疗机构排斥并诽谤他。

He wrote, "I could not believe this was happening

他写道：“我无法相信这事会发生在

in a country that I so love."

一个我如此热爱的国家。”

And yet he did not tremble.

但是他没有颤抖。

He said, "The healing of the world starts by one person saying loudly,

他说：“世界的治愈始于 一个人大声说话，

so the whole world can hear,"

使得整个世界都能听见”，

an important, true thing,

这是一件重要的、真实的事情，

that he knows he's not supposed to say

一件他知道有人不想让他说的事，

and that he knows will get him in trouble for saying it.

而且他知道说了会给他带来麻烦。

I think about Roland Fryer, the economist who did just that.

我想到了经济学家罗兰·弗莱尔， 他曾经也这样做。

His colleagues at Harvard warned him against publishing research

他在哈佛的同事警告他不要发表

that he did into police violence.

他对警察暴力的研究。

"You'll ruin your career," they told him.

他们告诉他：“你会毁掉你的职业生涯。”

And that's because his research found

那是因为他的研究发现，

that while there was racial bias in low-level police force,

尽管低级警力使用中存在种族偏见，

there wasn't when it came to police shootings.

但在警察枪击事件方面 却没有种族偏见。

Now Roland himself was shocked by these findings.

现在，罗兰本人对这些发现感到震惊。

He knew it went against his own assumptions.

他知道这与他自己的假设背道而驰。

He knew it would outrage people.

他知道这会激怒人们。

But he published the research anyway.

但无论如何，他还是发表了这项研究。

And it wasn't simply that his reputation suffered.

而且不仅仅他的声誉受到了损害，

He had to hire an armed guard in Cambridge.

他不得不在剑桥雇用一名武装警卫。

His baby was seven days old,

他的孩子当时七天大，

and he had to go to buy diapers with an armed guard.

而他不得不和一个武装警卫 一起去买尿布。

Where did he get the courage to do it?

他在哪里得到的勇气去做这件事？

"Simple," he told me.

“很简单，” 他告诉我。

"I don't covet what they covet."

“我不觊觎他们觊觎的东西。”

He said, "Every day I have to look at myself in the mirror and say,

他说：“我每天都要照镜子 里的自己然后说：

'What are you here for?'"

‘你在这里是为了什么？’”

Masih Alinejad knows what she is put on Earth for.

马希赫·阿琳娜嘉德知道自己 被送到地球上是为了什么。

With moxie and courage,

凭着精力和勇气，

she is leading the campaign for women's rights in Iran.

她正在领导伊朗的妇女权利运动。

Her sister was forced to denounce her on state television.

她的妹妹被迫在国家电视台谴责她。

Her brother was thrown in jail for her dissent.

她的兄弟因她的不服从而入狱。

And now Masih lives in exile in America

现在，马希赫在过着美国流亡生活，

but remains a hunted woman,

但仍是一名被猎杀的妇女，

moving from safe house to safe house.

从一个安全屋搬到另一个安全屋。

And yet she does not stop shouting for freedom.

然而，她并没有停止为自由而呼喊。

Nor does Jimmy Lai,

媒体大亨黎智英也没有，

the media mogul whose pro-democracy newspaper "Apple Daily"

他的民主报纸《苹果日报》

was shut down as China took over Hong Kong.

在中国接管香港时被关闭。

Jimmy had more than the means to flee his country.

黎智英拥有的逃离祖国的手段不止于此。

He is a billionaire with a British passport.

他是一位持有英国护照的亿万富翁。

But he stayed.

但是他留下来了。

"Now is not the time for safety," he said.

他说：“现在不是确保安全的时候。

"This is a time for sacrifice."

现在是牺牲的时候。”

Today is his 1,204 day in prison.

今天是他在监狱服刑的 1,204 天。

His son Sebastian said this of his father:

他的儿子塞巴斯蒂安这样谈到他的父亲：

"Dad staying in Hong Kong is really proof

“爸爸留在香港确实证明了

that this intangible thing we call liberty is a thing people yearn for.

我们称之为自由的这种无形事物

是一种人们向往的东西。

You can call it Western values, but it's not really.

你可以称之为西方价值观， 但事实并非如此。

In the sense that it's not something that only people in the West

从某种意义上说，这不是只有西方人

want or deserve."

想要或应得的东西。”

Alexei Navalny was not born in the West,

阿列克谢·纳瓦尔尼不出生在西方，

but he yearned for that kind of liberty.

但他渴望这种自由。

The opposition leader had refuge in Germany,

反对派领导人在德国避难，

but he flew back into Putin's Russia,

但他飞回普京的俄罗斯，

sacrificing his freedom and ultimately his life

牺牲了自由，并最终牺牲了生命

to oppose tyranny.

以反对暴政。

He knew that his death would expose the truth

他知道自己的死将揭露

about a totalitarian regime built on lies.

建立在谎言基础上的极权主义政权的真相。

Which it can,

它确实可以，

so long as we keep his memory alive.

只要我们能存留他的记忆就行。

Navalny lived and died beneath the shadow of a tyranny

纳瓦尼在一段暴政的阴影下生活和死亡，

that we are fighting to prevent in our still young

我们正在为防止这种暴政而奋斗，

but ever-darkening century.

在这个还年轻但日趋黑暗的世纪里。

Ask yourself right now,

现在问问自己，

should it take courage in the West to denounce the hateful ideology

在西方谴责伊朗伊斯兰共和国的

of the Islamic Republic of Iran,

仇恨意识形态，

which pronounces death on individual writers

这种意识形态宣告个人作家和 整个国家的死亡，无论大小，

and on entire countries, large and small?

不需要勇气吗？

Should it take courage to oppose those chanting "death to America?"

反对那些高呼“死于美国”的人 不需要勇气吗？

Should it take courage to say, “No, that’s wrong?”

说“不，那是不对的”不需要勇气吗？

Should it take courage to say

说那些赞美俄罗斯

that those who praise the pristine subways of Russia

原始地铁的人不是记者，而是宣传家，

are not journalists, but propagandists?

不需要勇气吗？

(Applause)

（掌声）

Should it take courage to just say in public,

只是在公共场合说

"I disagree?"

“我不同意” 不需要勇气吗？

Right now it does.

现在确实需要。

My friend Coleman Hughes,

我的朋友科尔曼·休斯

who spoke on this stage last year

去年在这个舞台上发表了讲话，

and who advocates for the colorblind ideal

他倡导马丁·路德·金

championed by Martin Luther King Jr,

所倡导的色盲理想，

rather than give in to the race essentialism

而不是屈服于种族本质主义，

that's become chic these days,

这种在当今变得时尚的主义。

he'll debate anyone.

他会为此与任何人辩论。

He'll disagree with anyone.

他会为此对任何人表示不同意。

But why is it that his angriest opponents prefer to call him hateful names

但是，为什么他最愤怒的对手

更愿意给他起仇恨的名字

and to lobby for his exclusion?

并游说将他排除在外？

The question, I think,

我认为，问题在于

is whether or not the people I've mentioned

我提到的人

and those like them,

和像他们这样的人，

whether their photos and their names

他们的照片和名字，

and most importantly, their ideas

以及最重要的他们的想法

will show up at conferences like this one.

是否会出现在像这样的会议上。

And that's up to you.

而这取决于你们。

I've had enough people confess to me after lectures or in newsrooms

已经有足够多的人在课后、新闻编辑室、

or on college campuses or in corporations or cafes,

大学校园、公司或咖啡馆向我坦白，

really, everywhere I go,

真的，无论我走到哪里，

that they wish they could say what they believe.

都有人坦白说希望 自己能说出自己的信念。

They tell me with some measure of shame

他们在某种程度上羞愧地告诉我，

that they're closeted in our liberal democracies.

他们被封闭在我们的自由民主国家中。

It's a really strange phenomenon.

这是一个非常奇怪的现象。

The freest people in the history of the world

世界历史上最自由的人

seem to have lost the hunger for liberty.

似乎已经失去了对自由的渴望。

Or maybe it's really the will to defend it.

或者也许是捍卫它的意愿。

And when they tell me this,

当他们告诉我这些时，

it puts me in mind of my hero, Natan Sharansky,

我想起了我的英雄，纳坦·沙兰斯基，

who spent a decade in the Soviet gulag before getting his freedom.

他在苏联集中营呆了十年，

然后才获得自由。

He is the single bravest person that I have ever met in my life.

他是我一生中见过的最勇敢的人。

And a few years ago, one afternoon in Jerusalem,

几年前，在耶路撒冷的一个下午，

I asked him a simple question.

我问了他一个简单的问题。

"Nathan," I asked him, "is it possible to teach courage?"

“内森，” 我问他，“有可能教人勇气吗？”

And he smiled in his impish way and said, "No.

然后他用自己顽皮的方式 笑了笑说：“不。

All you can do is show people how good it feels to be free."

你所能做的就是向人们展示 自由的感觉有多好。”

Thank you.

谢谢。

(Applause and cheers)

（掌声和欢呼）

Thank you so much. Thank you.

非常感谢。谢谢。

(Applause)

（掌声）

Thank you.

谢谢。

(Applause)

（掌声）

Chris Anderson: Stay up, stay up a sec.

克里斯·安德森：等等，等一下。

Friends --

朋友们--

Bari Weiss: Sorry I couldn't memorize, you guys.

巴里·维斯：对不起我记不住，朋友们。

CA: This session is going to run long.

CA：这个会话将持续很长时间。

I'm sorry, but it matters.

对不起，但这很重要。

Thank you, that was a great talk.

谢谢，那是个很棒的演讲。

Saw people stand and cheer,

我看见有人站起来欢呼，

other people didn't stand.

其他人没有站起来。

You're in the middle of all these issues --

你正处于所有这些问题之中--

BW: I was expecting hecklers, so I'm really happy.

BW：我本来以为会有人捣乱， 所以我真的很高兴。

CA: But these issues are so important.

CA：但是这些问题非常重要。

And this is such an important conversation.

这是一次非常重要的对话。

I think I want to ask you something

我觉得我想问你一些问题，

in the quest for common ground here.

以寻求这里的共同点。

Is it possible that, as well as lack of courage,

除了缺乏勇气之外 ，

there's something else big going on

是否还有其他重要的东西

in the hearts of many of the "silent majority?"

在许多“沉默的大多数”心中？

Which, for want of a better word is love.

用更好的词形容也就是爱。

These are often debates between identity groups,

这些通常是不同 身份认知群体之间的辩论，

and many of us don't like the way that the battle is going.

而且我们中的许多人不喜欢 这种辩论的进行方式。

But we also feel deeply the pain

但是，我们也深深地感受到了

that a lot of these groups have gone through,

其中许多群体所经历的痛苦

the injustices that they have suffered.

和他们遭受的不公正待遇。

(Applause)

（掌声）

And if you get involved,

如果你参与进来，

it can so easily be seen as you are against that group.

你很容易被看作在反对那个团体。

And I guess I'm just wondering

我想我只是想知道

whether there's common ground to be found in us all saying identity really matters.

我们所有说身份真的很重要的人 之间是否有共同点。

And I mean, you care about the past injustices of people in America

我的意思是，你关心过去在美国的人民 所遭受的不公正待遇

and all the different groups you’ve talked about.

以及你所谈到的所有不同群体。

But that there are some things that are upstream of identity

但是，有一些在身份认知背后的东西

that matter even more.

更为重要。

You mentioned truth, the pursuit of truth.

你提到了真理，对真理的追求。

We have common ground on that.

我们在这方面有共同点。

I believe that passionately.

我坚信这一点。

I believe that about ideas.

我相信这是关于想法的。

You know that some people want to say that ideas are a property of one group

你知道有些人想说 想法是一个群体的财产，

and that, you know -- but no, no,

你知道的--但不，不是，

TED is all based on the notion

TED 都是基于

that ideas can spread from any human to any human.

思想可以从任何人 传播到任何人的观念。

BW: But the whole question is, sorry to interrupt,

BW：但是整个问题是， 不好意思打断一下，

how do you get to truth, right?

你如何了解真相，对吧？

And the West has given us the most radical tools in human history.

西方为我们提供了人类历史 上最激进的工具。

I think Sam Harris is probably in this room, and I’m stealing his line.

我想山姆·哈里斯可能 在这个房间里，我在偷他的台词。

But the radical departure is that here, in rooms like this one,

但根本的不同之处在于， 在这里，在这样的房间里，

in cultures like the ones that we are lucky enough to live in,

在像我们有幸生活在的文化中，

we don't solve our conflicts with blows and with violence.

我们不会用打击和暴力 来解决我们的冲突。

We solve them with words.

我们用文字来解决它们。

And that is why it is so absolutely crucial,

这就是为什么它如此重要，

no matter how people who are really advocating to burn it all down

不论那些主张把它全部烧掉的人

or tear it all down.

或者全部推翻的人。

No, by tearing it all down,

不，当你推翻一切，

by tearing down the rule of law,

当你推翻法治，

by disallowing us to be able to have this kind of debate and discussion,

当你禁止我们进行这样的辩论和讨论，

you're preventing the whole project itself.

你就是在阻碍整个项目本身。

And that has nothing to do with identity,

而这与身份无关，

with claims of victimhood,

关于主张的受害者

with actual victimhood.

和实际受害者。

The entire way that progress has been achieved

取得进展的整个途径

is by victim groups using the tools

是受害者群体

that liberal democracies have provided them with.

使用自由民主国家为他们提供的工具。

Without freedom, without freedom of speech, freedom of religion,

如果没有自由，没有言论自由， 没有宗教自由，

without the rule of law,

没有法治，

none of the progress that I know so many people in this room celebrate

我知道的这个房间里有 这么多人庆祝的进展

would be possible at all.

都根本不可能发生。

And so it's really about clinging to the tools rather than repudiating them.

因此，这其实是关于坚持使用 这些工具，而不是否定它们。

CA: I agree with that.

CA：我同意这一点。

(Applause)

（掌声）

But the tools of words in our current culture,

但是，在我们当前的文化中，

which is sound-bite, fast stuff,

言语的工具，它们简短快速，

it's so often heard as an assault,

经常作为一种攻击被听见，

it's heard not as words and exploration of truth.

而不是作为言语对真理的探索。

It's heard as hatred or criticism.

它被视为仇恨或批评。

And I just wonder whether there could be a coalition of the willing,

我只是想知道是否可能 有一个由有志者组成的联盟，

or double down exactly on what you said,

或者加倍努力实现你所说的话，

let's pursue the truth.

让我们追寻真相。

Let's pursue the best ideas.

让我们追寻最好的想法。

Let's not be fearful of sharing things that are difficult with each other,

让我们不要害怕分享彼此困难的事情，

but do so in a spirit of love and respect,

而是要本着爱与尊重的精神去分享，

and so that everyone can know that at heart, they are respected.

这样每个人都能知道 内心深处他们是受到尊重的。

We're all trying to make things better.

我们都在努力让事情变得更好。

(Applause)

（掌声）

BW: I don't see anything to disagree with there, only that ...

BW：我没有什么不同意见，只不过······

you know ...

你知道的······

Respect -- like ...

尊重--

Love and compassion and all of that,

爱与同情以及所有这些，

again, it's only possible if we agree to a certain set of rules

再次，只有我们一致同意 一套特定的规则才能称为可能。

that I think many of us took for granted

这些规则我想是被我们中的 许多人认为理所当然的，

in the way we take oxygen or gravity for granted.

就像我们将氧气或重力视为理所当然。

And one of the things that has driven me and my choices

在我过去的人生中，

over the past years of my life

影响我和我的选择的一件事是，

is a profound sense that the line between civilization and barbarism,

我深刻地意识到文明与野蛮之间的界限，

a word that maybe will provoke some people,

野蛮这个词可能会激怒一些人，

but I believe is an accurate description,

但我相信这是一个准确的描述，

is paper thin.

这种界限像纸一样薄。

The things that allow for us to do this

使我们能够做到这一点的东西

are so exceptional,

如此特别，

and they have to be fought for.

它们必须被争取得到。

And the people that claim that words are violence

那些声称言语是暴力的人

are taking away

正在夺走

the most fundamental tool we have

我们实现所有美德的最基本工具，

for all of the virtues that I was trying to talk about on stage here this morning.

这些我今天上午想在台上谈论的美德。

(Cheers and applause)

（欢呼和掌声）

CA: Bari, thank you.

CA：巴里，谢谢。

You've ignited an incredibly important conversation here.

你在这里引发了一场非常重要的对话。

Thank you for doing that.

谢谢你这么做。

Please stay, please continue this conversation.

请留下来，请继续这个对话。

And thank you for what you said.

和谢谢你所说的话。

BW: Thanks for having me.

BW：谢谢你们邀请我。

(Applause)

（掌声）