The Secret to Finding Your Ideal Workplace | Marion Campan | TED

譯者: Lilian Chiu 審譯者: 麗玲 辛

Imagine this.

想像一下：

You've been applying to a ton of jobs for months,

幾個月來，你已經投了 一大堆工作履歷，

and now finally,

現在你終於收到了 工作邀約，還不只一份，

you're getting not just one, but two job offers.

而是兩份。

Congratulations!

恭喜！

It's time to celebrate.

該來慶祝了。這是很棒的消息吧？

It's great news, right?

But after the celebration comes the time where you can ask yourself,

但慶祝完之後， 此時，你該問你自己

how is it that you're going to choose between those two job offers?

要如何在這兩個工作機會中做抉擇。

Some people are going to tell you, "Just go for the salary,

有些人會告訴你：「看薪水 就對了，越高越好。」

The higher the better," right?

Others are going to tell you, "No, go for the title, the position.

別人則會告訴你：「不，看頭銜，

職位越高越好。」

The higher the better."

And others are going to tell you, "Look for the mission,

還有人會跟你說：

「看工作任務，看你會需要 做什麼樣子的專案計畫，

the kind of projects that you're going to be working on.

The more experience, the better."

能吸取越多經驗越好。」

Well, I suggest that you look at a completely different criteria.

我要建議各位考量的 標準則完全不同。

I suggest that you choose your next job based on the company culture.

我建議各位根據公司文化 來選擇下一份工作。

My name is Marion.

我叫瑪莉安，

Or better said, my name is Marion,

更確切來說，我的名字是瑪莉詠，

and I am passionate about corporate cultures.

我對企業文化充滿熱情。

When I say my name, people can guess that I am French,

當我說出我的名字時， 大家可以猜到我是法國人，

and they usually want to guess further.

且他們通常會想進一步猜測。 她來自法國的哪裡？

Where in France is she from?

And there is a city that comes to their mind,

他們腦中浮現一個城市的名字，

the capital of love, Paris.

愛的首都，巴黎。

But I have to disappoint you.

但我得讓各位失望了。

As beautiful as Paris is,

雖然巴黎很美，但我來自 一個更棒更美的地方。

I come from an even better place, even more beautiful.

So I don't come from Paris, I come from Tahiti.

我不是來自巴黎，我來自大溪地。

And Tahiti is this island in the middle of nowhere in the Pacific Ocean.

大溪地是太平洋的一個偏遠島嶼。

許多人的夢想是退休後到那裡， 住在海灘邊，手上還有個椰子。

And a lot of people dream of retiring there

with a coconut in their hand by the beach.

Well, I didn't wait for retirement.

嗯，我沒有等到退休。

I actually spent my childhood there.

實際上，我在那裡度過我的童年。

And this is how I was, five, six years old,

這是五、六歲時的我，

living the best time of my life.

這是我一生中最美好的時光。

And Tahiti is great, yes, for the beaches and the coconuts.

就海灘和椰子來說，大溪地很棒。

But the best thing in Tahiti, it's the diversity.

但是大溪地最棒的是多樣性。

Because, you see, Tahiti is an island with a bit of a melting-pot culture.

因為，大溪地是個算是 有點像鎔爐文化的島嶼。

So if you’re thinking about these two job positions that you have,

那麼，如果你在衡量 你的兩個工作職位，

and you're thinking about which one should you choose,

你在考慮要選擇哪一個， 而且你在評估企業文化，

and if you're looking at corporate culture,

you might find it hard to know from the outside

你可能會覺得很難從外部知道

what it's going to be like to work in that company.

在那間公司工作會是怎樣的。

Most people think that it is impossible to know beforehand

大部分人認為不可能事前知道

what a company culture is going to be like before you work there, right?

公司文化會是什麼樣子， 進去工作了才會知道。

How are you going to know before you go to Japan

如果你都還沒去日本， 你怎麼能夠知道

what the culture in Japan is really like?

日本文化真正的模樣？

Well, I disagree with this, and in my sharing today,

我不同意這一點，

而我今天要跟大家分享 兩種不同的方法，

I would like to share with you two different ways

for you to figure out

讓各位可以事先搞清楚 公司文化是什麼樣子的，

what a company culture is going to be like beforehand,

because that's going to avoid you signing a contract

這樣各位就可以避免 簽下一份將來會後悔的合約。

that you're going to regret down the line.

I think most people don’t follow those two tips that I’m going to share,

我認為大部分人都沒有遵循 我接下來要分享的這兩項祕訣，

and the numbers show.

數字會說話。

蓋洛普做了一項關於 世界各地工作場所狀況的研究，

Gallup has run a study on the state of workplace worldwide,

and I've pulled the numbers for East Asia,

我挑出東亞的數字， 這些數字很可怕。

and the numbers are dreadful.

Overall, there is only 17 percent of people

總的來說，只有 17％ 的人 會投入他們的工作。

who are engaged in their work.

That means about 80 are not.

意思就是約 80% 的人沒有投入。

When people are not engaged,

沒有投入的人通常 會想要離開，找別的工作。

then they tend to want to leave and go somewhere else.

More than half of them want to quit.

他們當中有一半以上想辭職。

And if they can't quit,

如果他們無法辭職， 也許是因為市場沒那麼好，

because maybe the marketplace is not that great,

what happens is people are starting to be quiet quitting.

那他們就會開始安靜離職。

That means they're coming to work,

意思就是他們會去工作，但只做到 能確保不被開除的最低限度。

but really they do the bare minimum not to get fired.

For employees and employers, this is dreadful numbers,

對員工和雇主而言， 這些數字很可怕。

and I'd like to take those numbers and bring them to reality.

我想把這些數字帶進現實來， 實際上是怎樣的狀況？

What does that look like, really?

And I'll give you an example of a coaching client

容我用幾年前我指導的客戶來當例子，

a couple of years ago who is a lawyer,

她是律師，咱們稱她為茱妮塔。

let's call her Junita.

And Junita is an awesome lawyer.

茱妮塔是個很棒的律師， 她很擅長她的工作，

She's really great at what she does,

but she didn't want to end up in a law firm,

但她不想進入律師事務所， 她覺得那有點無聊。

she found it a bit boring.

She wanted something more exciting and fancy.

她想要更刺激、更炫的。

So she ended up in a startup.

所以她最後進入一家新創公司。

But after a few months, she just realized this is not the right fit here.

但幾個月後，她發現，

她不適合這裡。

You see, Junita really, really likes things done well.

茱妮塔真的真的很想把事情做好。

She likes to take her time and double check.

她喜歡花點時間做仔細的檢查。

But she’s surrounded with entrepreneurs and startuppers,

但她身邊都是企業家 和新創企業的人，

people who want to go fast and break things.

這些人想要快速行動並打破常規。

So there were a lot of tensions between her and the rest of the team.

因此她和團隊其他成員 之間的關係頗緊張。

很快的，幾個月後，她就累壞了。

So very quickly, after a few months, she just burnt out.

Professionally, she was questioning herself.

專業層面上，她在質疑她自己。 身為律師，她在質疑她自己。

As a lawyer, she was questioning herself.

As an individual, she was questioning herself.

個人層面上，她也在質疑她自己。

"Why is it that I can't fit in here?"

「為什麼我無法融入這裡？」

So we worked together, and she moved to a more traditional workplace culture,

所以我們開始合作，她轉換到 一個更傳統的工作場所文化，

where she saw that people were behaving a little bit more like her

在那裡，她看到 大家的行為和她更像一些，

and shared her work ethics.

且和她有同樣的工作倫理。

That's where she really thrived in her job.

在那裡，她真的 把她的工作做得很出色。

And this is what I wish to every single one of you,

這是我對在座每個人的希望，

is to experience a place,

去體驗一個這樣的地方、環境，

an environment that brings not the worst, but the best out of you.

能讓你呈現出最好的自己， 而非最糟的自己。

So basically that you don't look like her.

這樣，至少你不會像畫面上的人。

So how are you going to do that?

那要如何做到這一點？

Know that a place is going to be good for you.

怎麼知道哪個地方對你來說是好的？

Basically, you're asking me,

基本上，那就是在問我： 我要如何知道

how can I do to know that a thing is going to be good

一件我自己都還沒有 經歷過的事對我會是好的？

before I experience it myself?

我認為各位每天都在這麼做。

Well, I think you're doing this on a daily basis.

For instance, have you ever checked for a restaurant's rankings

比如，各位在前去一間餐廳前

是否曾查過它的排名和評價？

and comments before you go?

You're checking,

你在查看確認，

you're trying to see what it's going to be like.

你在試圖了解它會是什麼樣子的。

Or maybe if you're doing groceries and you're looking for, I don't know,

或，也許，你去買雜貨，你在尋找

avocados because you want to do a guacamole,

酪梨，因為你想要做酪梨沙拉醬，

how are you going to select the right avocado for yourself?

你要如何為自己選擇對的酪梨？

It's the same.

一樣的道理。

So I would like to compare company cultures to avocados.

我想把公司文化比喻成酪梨。

If you have ten avocados,

如果你有十個酪梨可以選， 要怎麼知道選哪個才對？

how do you know which one is the right one?

各位可能會拿起其中一個， 稍微從外部擠壓一下，

You're probably going to take one and put some pressure on the skin,

and you might feel that there is resistance,

可能可以感受到阻力， 也許太多或太少，

maybe too much or too little,

and that's how you're going to judge.

這就是各位下判斷的方式。

So today, what I would like to share with you are two tools.

今天我要跟大家分享兩種工具。

The first one for you to assess if a culture,

第一種工具可以用來評估

文化、公司是否會適合你，

a company is going to be the right fit for you,

the first tool for you is to observe.

第一種工具就是觀察。

Observe, observe, observe.

觀察，觀察，觀察。

What do you observe?

要觀察什麼？

Well, you observe the entire recruitment process.

要觀察整個徵才過程。

Because what happens in the recruitment process

因為在徵才過程中，公司會試圖 向你展現它們最好的一面。

is companies are trying to show you their best side.

They really want to attract you.

它們真的想吸引你， 它們想得到你，在誘惑你。

They want to get you, they're seducing you.

So if there is some things that you don't like there,

所以如果過程中有你不喜歡之處， 之後大概也不會喜歡。

you're probably not going to like afterwards either.

Let me give you an example.

讓我舉個例子。

If a company takes weeks to answer your emails

如果公司需要好幾週的時間 才回覆你的電子郵件，

or even book an interview with you,

或和你約面談時間，

well, that kind of culture is probably a bit slower

那麼，那種文化可能會 比你期望的更慢一些。

than what you would expect.

If that dynamism is what you're looking for

如果那種程度的活力是你 想找的，且你喜歡有結構，

and you like structures and companies

that are more process-oriented, that's the right culture.

喜歡比較流程導向的公司，

那種文化就對了。

But if you're looking for a very entertaining, dynamic,

但如果你想找的是非常有娛樂性、 有活力、精力旺盛的工作場所，

energetic workplace, that’s probably too slow.

那種文化可能就太慢了。

You might want to look for a company

你可能會想找會在數天 或甚至數小時內回覆的公司。

that responds in a matter of days or even hours.

另一個例子是， 如果有三個人面試你，

Another example would be if you have three people interviewing you

and only one speaks and the other two are silent,

只有一個人說話， 另外兩人保持沉默，

and you figure the one that is speaking is the boss,

你認為說話的那個人是老闆，

that culture is very hierarchical.

那種文化就非常階級式。

And that's fine,

那沒問題，

because it's not good or bad, it's not right or wrong, it just is.

無關好壞，無關對錯，它就是現狀。

And you need to know whether you like that kind of culture

你得知道你是否喜歡那種文化、

and that fits you,

它是否適合你，

or if you want a company culture that really is more flat

或者你想要的公司文化

是比較扁平的、讓你 可以發聲並挑戰現狀。

and allows you to speak up and challenge the status quo.

That's probably not the right kind of culture for you.

那種文化可能就不適合你。

So the first thing you can do is observe, observe, observe.

各位可以做的第一件事 就是觀察，觀察，觀察。

The second thing you can do is to ask questions.

各位可以做的第二件事是問問題。

And so asking questions is really cool

問問題真的很酷，

because that's when you have the avocado in your hand

因為那就是你把酪梨 拿在手中擠壓的時刻。

and you're putting pressure there.

You know when they're asking you in an interview,

當他們在面試中問你：

"Hey we finished all the questions.

「嘿，我們要問的都問完了。

Do you have any questions?"

你有什麼問題要問嗎？」

Hell yeah, you have questions.

是的，你有問題要問。 你應該要有問題要問。

You should have questions.

And I'm going to give you three questions that are going to up your game

我要提供各位三個問題， 協助各位提升面試時的優勢。

when it comes to interviewing.

This question starts with the first question,

首先，從第一個問題開始。

which focuses on the future potential that you have in that company.

這個問題著重你在 該公司未來的潛能。

And it's a bit in-your-face,

它有點直接，

but the question is "What kind of people get promoted here?"

就是：「什麼樣的人 在這裡可以升遷？」

If they tell you, "Well, nobody got promoted in the last year."

如果他們告訴你： 「嗯，去年沒有人升遷。」

You know you probably don't have a big future in that company.

你就知道你可能在那間公司 可能不會有遠大的未來。

But if they say, “Oh, Alexei got promoted last month.”

但如果他們說：「喔， 艾力克西上個月升遷了。」

"Interesting.

「有意思。

Alexei sounds like a really cool person.

艾力克西聽起來是個很酷的人， 多跟我聊聊他的事。

Tell me more about him."

There, you're asking follow-up questions to discover more.

這時，你就在問接續的 問題，以了解更多。

"Well, why is it that he was selected as the one being promoted?"

「嗯，為什麼他被選中 成為升遷的人？」

And then you listen to what they're telling you.

接著你聽他們怎麼回答， 如果他們說：「嗯，

If they say, "Well, you know, he was the boss's best friend,

要知道，他是老闆最好的朋友，

so he got promoted."

所以他升遷了。」

Well, unless you're very close to the boss,

那，除非你和老闆很親近， 不然應該不會想進入那間公司。

you probably don't want to join that company.

But maybe they're going to say other things like,

但也有可能他們會有 其他的說法，比如：

“You know, Alexei is technically the best out of us.

「要知道，技術上來說， 艾力克西是我們當中最好的。

For instance, the best engineer in the team.

比如，團隊中最好的工程師， 所以我們讓他升遷了。」

So we promoted him.”

Great.

太好了。這間公司的文化 和英才制度有關。

This company culture is about meritocracy.

如果你真的很擅長你的工作， 你將來就會升遷。

So if you're really good at your job, you're going to get promoted.

If they say, "Well, Alex got promoted because he's been the longest here,

如果他們說：「嗯，

艾力克西升遷是因為他資歷最久，

he's the longest in the company."

他是公司中最資深的人。」

Alright, this company values loyalty, longevity, tenure in the company.

好，這間公司重視

忠誠度、年資、在公司的任期。

你喜歡的是哪一種？

What is it that you like?

So for me, the best answer to this question,

對我來說，這個問題的最佳答案，

if I would apply for a job, would be,

如果我要求職，我會選

“Alexei got promoted because he’s the best at his job,”

「艾力克西獲得升遷是因為 他把他的工作做得最好」，

so he has the skill.

他的技能很棒。

"He also is the best of us, we all look up to him."

「他也是我們當中最好的， 我們都敬重他。」

What that means is that he is a team player probably,

這可能意味著他是有團隊精神的人，

and he represents the culture best and we promote that.

他最能代表公司文化， 我們很推崇這一點。

And finally we're promoting him because he has the potential

最後一種說法：我們讓他升遷，

因為他有潛力成為很棒的經理。

to be a great manager.

For me, these are green flags.

對我來說，這就是綠旗。

So that's the first question to see if you have the potential

這就是第一個問題，用來判斷你 在這間公司有無機會成長和久留。

to grow in this company and stay long-term.

The second question is very simple but also tells a lot.

第二個問題非常簡單，

但也能帶來很多資訊。

And that question is "What are your core values?"

這個問題就是：「你們的 核心價值觀是什麼？」

I'm going to give you the red flags straight away.

我現在就告訴各位紅旗 是什麼，紅旗就是：

The red flag would be

"Core values?

「核心價值？你在說什麼？ 核心價值是什麼？」

What are you talking about? What is that?"

那種公司不懂企業文化。

That's a company that has no idea about corporate culture.

If they say, "Yeah, we have core values,

如果他們說：「好， 我們有核心價值，但，

but I don't remember what they are, sorry."

我想不起來了，抱歉。」

Red flag.

紅旗。

Or if they say, "Yeah, yeah, we have a core value.

或者如果他們說：「有，有， 我們有核心價值，那就是卓越。」

Our core value is excellence."

Then you need to follow up with a question again.

那麼你就需要接著再問一個問題。

"Great, excellence is a core value.

「很棒，卓越是核心價值。

Tell me about it.

跟我談談它。你們上次在公司 看到卓越是什麼時候？」

When was the last time that you have seen excellence around here?"

And a red flag is, "I don't know."

紅旗就是「呃……我不知道」。

A green flag would be someone telling you, "Yeah,

綠旗就是有人告訴你：「好的，

Just last week we provided the best project so far with the team.

就在上週我們團隊 做出了至今最好的專案。

And we're all really proud of what we have produced."

我們都對我們的成果非常自豪。」

OK, keep asking because then you know what the company culture is like.

好，繼續問，這樣你就會知道 這間公司的文化是怎樣的。

So that's the second question.

這就是第二個問題。

And the third question is also tricky,

第三個問題也很微妙，

but it's reminding you that there is no company culture that is perfect.

它的目的是提醒你，

沒有任何公司文化是完美的。

And from time to time, you will have conflicts,

而且，有時，會有衝突，

discussions that are a bit tough to have.

不容易進行的討論。

And what you want to know with this last question

用這最後一個問題可以取得的資訊是

is how are the people in this company going to deal with these challenges?

這間公司的人會如何因應這些難題？

How do people deal with one another?

這些人如何與彼此相處？

That last question is,

最後一個問題就是：

"Tell me,

「告訴我，

when was the last time that you received feedback here?"

你上次在公司得到 回饋意見是什麼時候？」

Again, a red flag would be "Never."

同樣的，紅旗是「從來沒有」。

Well, that's not good.

嗯，那並不好。

If the company says, or the interviewer says,

如果公司說，或面試者說：

"Well, I receive feedback once a year in a performance review."

「嗯，

我每年會在績效評估時 得到一次回饋意見。」

That's probably not enough.

這可能不夠。

But if they say "We're providing and receiving feedback very regularly,

但，如果他們說：「我們 會給予和接收回饋意見，

非常頻繁，幾乎是每天，

almost daily,

because we care about the growth of the people here,

因為我們在乎這裡員工的成長，

and we trust that our colleagues can take feedback

且我們相信同事能接納意見， 我們也能好好地提供意見。」

and that we're good enough to deliver it to them."

Whoa, that's a green flag right there.

哇，那就是綠旗。

OK, so we've seen the three different questions.

好，我們已經知道 這三個不同的問題了。

The first question is: “What kind of people get promoted here?”

第一個問題是：「在這裡 什麼樣的人可以升遷？」

The second question is:

第二個問題是：

“What are your core values?”

「你們的核心價值是什麼？」

And the third question is:

第三個問題是：

"When was the last time that you got feedback here?"

「你上次在這裡得到 回饋意見是什麼時候？」

Now these questions are really important

這些問題非常重要，因為你 有點像是在盤問面試你的人。

because you're kind of grilling your interviewer.

And your interviewer could be a very junior interviewer,

而面試你的人可能從非常 資淺的人到公司的執行長。

up to the CEO of the company.

That will tell you a lot as well of what the company culture is like.

那也能告訴你很多 這公司文化的訊息。

但是，在某個時點， 你得了解到，是的，

But so at some point, you will have to realize that, yes,

the interview is important because it helps them select you

面試很重要，因為面試 能幫助他們選擇你

as a future employee.

成為未來的員工。

But it’s also helping you select them as a future employer.

但面試也是在協助你選擇 他們成為你的未來雇主。

So the balance is reversed here.

所以平衡在這裡反轉了。

And what you need to bear in mind is

各位需要謹記在心的是

the idea that it's not only about them here

面試的重點不只是他們，

and you discovering more about what the core value

不只是讓你發掘核心價值 及公司是什麼樣子的，

and what the company is like,

but also about you as a professional.

身為專業人士的你也是重點。

And you need to be very clear about what you want

你得非常清楚你想要什麼 以及你對公司的期望。

and what you expect from a company.

So be very clear and define: What should work look like?

所以，要非常清楚並去定義：

工作看起來應該是什麼樣子？

What should work feel like?

工作感覺起來應該是什麼樣子？

and what should work be like?

工作應該是什麼樣子？

If you define this for yourself;

如果你為自己做出這些定義；

if you observe, observe, observe;

如果你觀察，觀察，觀察；

and if you ask the three questions that I have shared with you,

如果你問出我剛才分享的三個問題，

I trust that you will be able to choose between those two job offers

我相信你就能夠在這兩個 工作機會中做出選擇，

and decide which company you would like to join.

並決定你想進入哪間公司。

And I also believe that you will be able to choose for yourself

我也相信你能夠為自己

選擇最出色的工作場所文化。

the most outstanding workplace culture.

Thank you.

謝謝。