Kung Fu, Star Trek and the Many Paths to Spirituality | Rainn Wilson | TED

翻译人员: Laixi Kang 校对人员: suya f.

Folks. I wanted to talk a little bit today

朋友们，今天我想讲讲

about some of the ideas that are contained in my new book,

我的新书里面的一些主题。

"Soul Boom: Why We Need a Spiritual Revolution."

我的书叫《灵魂的繁盛：我们为何 需要一场灵性革命》。

But first things first.

不过首先，

I thought it would be really important to initially define the word "spiritual."

我觉得先给“灵性”一词下定义很重要。

What do we mean when we say the word "spiritual?"

我们说“灵性”，指的是什么？

Because that means a lot of different things

因为这个词对不同的人有不同的含义。

to a lot of different people.

So when you're talking about a spiritual revolution,

所以我们讲“灵性革命”，

what exactly are we discussing,

讨论的到底是什么？

how do we define our terms?

我们怎么定义这些用语？

To a lot of people,

对很多人来说，

"spiritual" means ghosts and seances and Ouija boards.

“灵性”就是鬼神、招魂、 通灵板之类的。

That's certainly not what I'm talking about.

我要说的自然不是这个。

To many people,

对很多人来说，

"spirituality" or "spiritual" refers to a kind of,

“灵性”或“灵性的”指的

what I would call a vague feeling in the heart

似乎是内心一种难以言说的感受，

while at a yoga class

可能发生在瑜伽课上、冥想、 使用水晶、烧香的时候。

or meditating or a crystal or incense or something like that.

That's also not what I'm talking about.

我想说的也不是这个。

I don't mean to insult that spiritual path in the slightest.

当然我无意冒犯这类灵修的方式。

I think it's incredibly important.

我觉得它们也非常重要， 我稍后会细说。

More on that later.

And to some people,

对另一些人来说，

the word "spiritual" is synonymous with religious and religion,

“灵性”即宗教，

and "spiritual" simply means church on Sundays at 11 am.

就是星期天早上 11 点上教堂。

That's also not what I'm talking about.

我要说的也不是这个。

I'm going to go right to the source, I'll go to the Oxford Dictionary.

我在这里要追根溯源， 引用一下《牛津词典》。

And spirituality is the "quality of being concerned with the human spirit."

《牛津词典》说灵性是 “和人类精神相关的品质”。

And in the Cambridge Dictionary,

《剑桥词典》说，

it's "the quality that involves deep feelings and beliefs

灵性是“一种品质， 涉及到带有宗教性质，

of a religious nature rather than the physical parts of life."

而非物质世界的深层情感与信仰。”

So those are two pretty great definitions.

这两个定义都非常好。

And right there, smack dab in the middle is what I'm talking about

我说我们需要一场灵性革命的时候

when I say that we need a spiritual revolution.

说的就是这个。

So to tiptoe toward some of these larger ideas,

要过渡到这些更宏大的主题，

I need to go back in time.

我们需要让时光倒流。

I'm throwing myself way back to my childhood in the 1970s,

回到七十年代，我的童年时光。

and one of the most important words from the 1970s

七十年代最重要的词汇之一

is television.

便是电视机。

I was raised by a television, folks,

朋友们，我是看着电视长大的，

like so many of us here in the United States,

和我们美国的许多人一样。

and two of my favorite shows from the 1970s

而在七十年代，我最喜欢的两个电视剧

kind of reveal what a spiritual path is.

向我们揭示了灵性之路的含义。

These two shows are “Kung Fu” and “Star Trek.”

这两个节目分别是《功夫》 和《星际迷航》。

So I'm going to start with "Kung Fu."

我先从《功夫》讲起。

“Kung Fu,” for those who don’t know, is about Kwai Chang Caine,

我向不熟悉的人介绍一下， 《功夫》讲的是虔官昌的故事。

and he is a half-Chinese Shaolin monk,

他是一个少林和尚，有一半中国血统。

practicing in China,

他在中国修行，

learning not only martial arts

不仅习得了武术，

but Daoist wisdom, Confucianism

还有道家智慧，儒家思想，

and Buddhist ideas of wisdom and self-reflection.

以及佛家的智慧以及自省的思想。

He is then sent out of the monastery, and he goes to the Old West.

接着他被送出少林寺， 来到了美国旧西部。

This is set during the 1860s,

故事设定在 1860 年代。

and he is wandering through the West

虔官昌在西部漂泊，

and encountering all kinds of unfortunate events

遇到许多不幸的事情，

like racist cowboys and mean people

例如怀有种族歧视的牛仔，卑鄙小人，

and aggressive landowners with shotguns.

手持猎枪的好斗地主。

And he is distilling his eastern wisdom and sharing it with people.

在这个过程中，他提炼了 东方的智慧并与别人分享。

He is learning as he goes.

他在这样的生活中不断学习。

He's learning how to be ever more thoughtful and patient

在和这些糟心的种族主义牛仔打交道中，

in the midst of all of these terrible racist cowboys.

他学会变得越发细致耐心。

And eventually there's always a kick ass fight.

节目最后总会有场让人大叫过瘾的打斗。

To me, "Kung Fu" is incredibly profound.

对我而言，《功夫》意义极其深刻。

I have a section on it in my book

我的书里有一部分提到，

in which some of the phrases of the show "Kung Fu"

我认为《功夫》中的一些台词

can be compared to the Bible, to Confucius,

可以映照《圣经》，孔子的智慧，

to the Bhagavad Gita, to the sayings of the Buddha.

《薄伽梵歌》，或是佛祖的言论。

And this is a path that we all walk as spiritual beings.

作为充满灵性的生物， 这是我们共同的道路。

We all are seeking to increase our wisdom,

我们都希求增加我们的智慧，

our kindness, our compassion,

我们的善良，同理心，以及耐心。

our patience,

all of these, what I would call spiritual virtues,

我称以上种种为灵性的美德。

as we move through the world, we're cultivating these.

我们在尘世中生活，培养着这些品质。

We are beset by tests.

我们被种种考验所困。

We have our own version of racist cowboys.

我们各自面对着 我们自己的种族主义牛仔，

We have, you know, mean bosses and deadlines and Zoom calls

面对着刻薄的老板，截止日期， 视频会议，以及急躁的小孩。

and impatient kids,

and we have to make money and raise our families

我们都要挣钱养家。

and we have our moral purpose to make ourselves better human beings.

我们有我们自己的道德目标， 以助我们成为更好的人。

And that is the "Kung Fu" path.

这就是《功夫》之道。

And the other path,

而另一条路， 我们道德目标的另一部分，

our other part of our moral purpose,

is to contribute to the well-being

在于为人类的福祉、发展

and maturity and maturation

和社会的进步做出贡献。

and social evolution of humanity as a whole.

And this is what I would call the "Star Trek" path.

我将其称作《星际迷航》之道。

The "Star Trek" path is, of course, about humans in the future.

自然，这条道路关乎未来的人类。

We have created The Federation.

我们建立了星际联邦，

All the countries are united,

联合起所有的国家。

we're boldly going into outer space and seeking a new life

我们勇敢地向外太空进发， 寻找新生命以及新兴文明。

and new civilizations.

But to me, it's a very spiritual television show

但对我来说，这个节目 非常具有精神启发。

because what has happened on planet Earth

虽然节目里很少提及地球， 但在《星际迷航》的世界里，

that they don't talk about very much on "Star Trek"

is that we've worked out all our problems.

我们已经解决了地球上所有的问题。

We have ended income inequality through the power of technology.

通过科技的力量， 我们消除了收入不均等的问题。

We have solved racism.

我们消除了种族主义、性别主义。

We've ended sexism.

And we are at peace with nature and with our own nature.

我们与大自然和平共处， 也接受我们的本性。

And this, to me, I see as the other part of the moral, twofold moral path,

我视之为道德之路的另一部分，

which is our spiritual contribution that we make to our species

即我们对人类的精神上的贡献，

as it grows and matures

让人类不断成长，

and moves along its journey toward maturation,

不断走向成熟，

love, harmony, unity in diversity.

爱，和谐，求同存异。

And that's the "Star Trek" path.

这就是《星际迷航》之路。

But then ultimately,

不过说到底，我想奠定的论点是，

the thesis that I want to build toward

is how do we look at this more "Star Trek" path?

我们该怎样看待《星际迷航》这条路？

How can we use spiritual tools

我们怎样利用灵性工具

to affect societal change at a foundational level?

从根本上促进社会改变？

So to continue the conversation,

接下来的谈话

I want to bring Carla.

我想请卡拉（Carla）出场。

Hi, Carla.

卡拉，你好。

Carla Zanoni: Hi, Rainn.

卡拉·赞诺尼（Carla Zanoni）： 嗨，雷恩。

You know, when I read your book

我在读你的书的时候，

and when I was just hearing you talking about the "Kung Fu" path,

刚刚又听你谈及《功夫》之路，

which is highly personal, personal development,

这种非常个体化的发展，

and the societal path of "Star Trek,"

以及《星际迷航》这条针对社会的路，

I was feeling really hungry to hear:

让我很想问问你，

Do we have any evidence,

我们有无任何证据， 尤其是面对 TED 这样

especially for such an evidence-based, science-thinking audience here at TED,

讲求科学、需要理据的观众，

that this kind of way of thinking can be applied?

是否有切实的证据证明 这样的思维方式可以被实践？

Rainn Wilson: Yes, well, I have a couple of very specific examples.

雷恩：是的。我这里有几个具体的例子。

So one of the, again, in the second part of the book,

其中一个是在书的第二部分，

when I’m getting, kind of digging deeper into the spiritual tools

在这部分里我更深入探讨了

能为社会带来变革的灵性工具。

used for kind of, societal and social transformation.

I talk about, at great detail,

我在其中详细说到了

about partisan politics and the election system,

党派政治以及选举制度，

especially here in the United States.

尤其在我们美国本土。

We talk about how the other party is wrong and bad and evil and misguided,

我们说敌党错误邪恶，受到误导，

but no one is having a conversation about how the system itself

却没有人探讨我们的体制，

is so colossally dysfunctional.

它本身便是极其失调的。

So we have, what I would call, a really toxic system

我们现有的体制非常扭曲，

that is ultimately unsustainable as a system.

并终将是不可持续的。

I bring up an idea from my personal faith tradition,

我提到我本人的信仰， 也就是巴哈伊信仰中的一个主题。

which is the Bahá’í Faith,

but rather than quote me about it,

不过与其用我自己的话说，

I want to quote the great author Amanda Ripley,

我想引用一下伟大作家阿曼达·里普利 （Amanda Ripley）的话。

who wrote a book called "High Conflict,"

她写了一本书叫《高度冲突》，

in which she brought out one small part of the Bahá’í tradition,

书里她提到巴哈伊传统中的一小部分，

which are Bahá’í elections.

即巴哈伊选举。

She talks about how in Bahá‘í elections there’s no clergy in the Bahá’í faith.

她谈到在巴哈伊信仰中没有神职人员，

So Bahá’ís elect a body to govern each local area

所以巴哈伊信徒会票选 一个管理当地的团体。

so the Bahá’ísof Los Angeles every year come together without any electioneering,

每年洛杉矶的巴哈伊信徒都聚集在一起，

no campaigning, no funds, no money,

没有任何竞选活动、宣传、资金，

no one suggesting anyone over anyone else,

也没有挑拨离间，

and meditatively and prayerfully elect nine people

并静默虔诚地票选出九个人

to govern the affairs of that community every year.

来负责当年社区的事务。

And they seek out the people with the most spiritual wisdom

他们要找的是最具精神智慧，

and the most selflessness to be public servants.

最无私的人来做公仆。

And my thought is, well, we can't really do that for the United States.

我认为，我们不太可能 将这套体系用于美国。

That seems unrealistic.

这不太现实。

But what if, what if,

不过我们可以试想，

there were a small community, Pancake Flats, Colorado,

假如科罗拉多州一个名为 Pancake Flats 的小社区，

that was tired of all the divisiveness and hyper aggression

疲于应付党派政治 所带来的分裂、敌对主义、

and financial waste from partisan politics,

以及财政消耗，

and they said, we’re going to do the same thing,

并决定采取同样的做法，

and we're going to elect five or seven or nine

票选出数位

or however many town council members to govern the affairs of the city

管理城镇事务的市镇议会成员

and the people that are the most selfless.

以及最为无私奉献的人。

And when we think about it like that

如果我们往这个方向思考，

and we think about a small change happening at a grassroots level,

考虑从基层发生的微小变革，

you can start to imagine,

我们便逐渐能够想象：

oh yeah, perhaps there is a way to,

对呀，也许我们有办法

in an entirely new ...

能够创立全新的……

In an entirely new method to change fundamentally

全新的方式，从根本上改变

how we govern and seek our public servants.

我们治理以及票选公务员的方式。

CZ: I'm wondering,

卡拉：我在想，

like, what do we need to do as individuals to work on ourselves

作为个体，我们可以如何提升自己，

so that we can then participate in

以助我们参与到

that kind of, societal way of working that you're describing?

你刚刚提到的这种社会体制之中呢？

RW: Great question.

雷恩：好问题。

And I am old enough, TED attendees,

TED 的观众们，我这个年龄

to remember the 1970s,

对七十年代还是有记忆的。

and I spoke about television,

我已经提到了电视机，

but I also remember the great hippie bumper sticker that said,

不过我还记得那张很棒的 嬉皮士汽车贴纸：

"Let there be peace in the world and let it begin with me,"

“让世界和平，让和平从我开始。”

and I also remember when people were actually talking about world peace.

我也记得人们曾经会认真谈论世界和平。

Nowadays, if you talk about world peace, people roll their eyes,

如今，你要是说起世界和平， 人们只会翻白眼，

and they think you're naive and it'll never happen.

觉得你太天真， 觉得世界和平永远不会发生。

But I truly believe that we can work towards world peace.

但我确信我们可以为世界和平努力。

But you're absolutely right.

但你说得很对。

Let there be peace in the world and let it begin with me.

让世界和平，让和平从我开始。

We have to also, at the same time,

我们的确需要同时

be working on our “Kung Fu” part of our journey,

走好《功夫》之路，

on our personal,

做好我们个人的灵性上的发展。

what I would call spiritual development.

And you certainly don't need a belief in a higher power to do that.

要做到这一点，你不必信仰任何神明。

But one of the aspects of the book I have at the end,

我的书在结尾之处提到，

I have seven pillars for a spiritual revolution,

我认为灵性革命有七大支柱，

and one of them is virtues education.

其中一项便是美德教育。

So I believe that we all have spiritual virtues contained in us.

我相信我们每个人都是有灵性美德的，

There are small pieces of the divine, the reflections of God,

有神的碎片，神的倒影，

they're reflections of the beautiful creative force

它们映射着贯穿整个宇宙的创造力量。

that courses through the universe.

They are kindness, humility, patience,

这些美德诸如善良，谦逊，耐心，

honor, creativity, love, honesty.

荣誉，创意，爱，诚信。

The list goes on and on.

还有许多许多。

And that these need to be cultivated in us and in our children especially.

我们需要培养这些品质， 我们的下一代尤其需要培养这些品质。

And we don't really do that.

而我们现在并没有这么做。

Now I want to just say that, again,

我想再次申明，

one doesn't need to have a religious faith

你并不需要宗教信仰

to look at the these virtues in this way.

才能从这种角度看待这些美德。

You can simply look at them as positive character traits or leadership qualities,

我们完全可以将其看作 积极的个人特质或领导能力，

and we want to cultivate those in our children

我们要在下一代中培养这些品质，

with or without any kind of religion or spirituality.

不管是否依托某种宗教信仰。

That's up to the parent.

那个视家长而定。

But, all too often, I've noticed in raising our son that when,

不过，我养育我自己的儿子时注意到，

let's say a child is dishonest and caught in a lie,

假如说一个孩子不诚实撒谎被发现，

a parent will say,

家长会说：

"Hey, don't lie.

“喂，不要撒谎。撒谎不好。”

It's bad to lie."

But they will not have done the work to talk about the quality of honesty

但却不会花费心力，认真向孩子指出

诚实这个品质以及它的重要性，

and how important honesty is

and how honesty manifests in your life

它在生活中体现的方式，

and how your life can be made better

以及它如何让你的生活

and other people's lives can be made better

还有他人的生活都变得更加美好。

through the quality of honesty.

But the importance of virtues education

美德教育的重要之处

is something that we can do on a personal level,

是我们作为个体能够做到的，

we can do it on a family level,

我们可以在我们自己的家庭中，

we can do it in our cul de sac or our condominium.

在社区或是公寓里面实践。

We can do it at our local church and we can do it at our local school.

还可以在本地的教堂、学校中实践。

And it's one of the pillars toward a spiritual revolution.

而这是灵性革命的一大支柱。

CZ: And Rainn, one of the things

卡拉：雷恩，你在书中

that you talk about so eloquently in the book

非常强有力地写到

is really pointing to one of many pandemics

我们正在经历的诸多瘟疫之一，

that we're living through,

including racism, sexism, materialism, climate change.

包括种族主义，性别歧视， 唯物主义，气候变化。

You also talk about the mental health pandemic

同时你也提到心理健康危机，

and particularly how that applies to young people in our lives.

尤其是它对我们之中年轻一代的影响。

RW: So I talk at great length in the book about having spiritual conversations,

雷恩：我在书中用大量篇幅 讲到灵性对话，

about deep topics that have existed from the dawn of time,

讲到很多自古以来便存在的深刻话题，

from the Hindu tradition,

来自于印度教传统，

from the, you know, the Vedas and Upanishads, the Bhagavad Gita,

《吠陀经》和《奥义书》，

《薄伽梵歌》，

through the sayings of the Buddha, the dharma paytas

来自于佛陀的教诲，《法句经》，

through the Bible and the Koran

来自于《圣经》和《古兰经》，

and the holy writings of Indigenous faiths as well, and traditions.

来自于原住民信仰的圣书和传统。

And one of the biggest issues with young people

年轻一代在心理健康危机上的一大问题

in the mental health epidemic has to do with resilience.

便是韧性。

If you ask psychologists,

如果你问心理学家，

there is a lack of resilience in young people.

年轻一代缺乏韧性。

So let's break that down a little bit.

我们详细解释一下这一点。

In our contemporary Western culture, we no longer talk about death.

在我们当代西方文化里， 我们不再讨论死亡。

Death is just, it's taboo, it's forbidden.

死亡是不能涉足的禁忌话题。

But because we're not talking about death,

但正因为我们不再谈论死亡，

we're also not talking about suffering and the nature of suffering.

我们也不再谈论痛苦，以及痛苦的本质。

And this is what the Buddha taught.

而这是佛陀的教诲。

You know, “I teach one thing and one thing only,

佛陀说：“我只传授一件事，

suffering and the end of suffering.”

即苦难和苦难的终结。”

Guess what? Life is suffering.

生活不就是受苦吗？

It's filled with disappointment and struggle and conflict

生活充满了失望，挣扎，矛盾和心碎，

and heartbreak

and death of pets, of friends, of relatives, of grandparents.

还有死亡——宠物，朋友， 亲戚，祖父母的离世。

The list goes on and on.

生活的苦难不胜枚举。

And so this affects young folk

这对年轻人造成的影响是，

in a way that they have much less resilience.

他们的韧性要差得多。

Now, there's much more to the mental health crisis than this.

当然，心理健康危机的因素远不止于此。

This is just one small slice of the pie,

这仅仅是冰山一角，

but it does have to do with why spiritual conversations and spiritual tools

但这无疑阐明了为什么 对身心灵的探讨和灵性的工具

are so important.

如此重要。

CZ: And it's interesting,

卡拉：有意思的是，

I had heard the surgeon general's ...

我听到卫生局长

discussion about the pandemic of loneliness.

对这场孤独感瘟疫的谈话。

And it was very striking to me that it is both with young people

令我讶异的是，年轻一代

and with our elderly

和老年人都受到影响，

and really spanning generations

孤独瘟疫确实跨越了几代人，

and incredibly serious.

而且非常严重。

But in your book, as a rhetorical device,

但在你的书里，作为一种修辞手法，

you propose the creation of a new religion called Soul Boom.

你提议创建一种新兴宗教， 你将其称作“灵魂繁盛”。

And in that, in the tenets of that religion,

你说在这个宗教的信条里，

you say that science and religion should really live side by side.

科学和宗教应该共生。

This is a pretty crazy idea, right?

这个想法有点疯狂，对吧？

RW: Such a great and important question.

雷恩：这是个很好、很重要的问题。

And I do believe that...

我确实认为，

Contemporary society has been so toxified by partisanship

我们当代的社会已被党派之争所毒害、

and bifurcated,

所分裂，

that, for some on the political left,

以至对于某些左倾的人来说，

any mention of spirituality or spiritual solutions has to do with church,

任何涉及身心灵以及 灵性的措施都涉及到教会，

which has to do with the political right.

而教会又与政治右派相关。

And any talk about science

而任何关于科学的讨论，

and like, science fixing let’s say, climate change or whatever,

例如我们利用科学解决气候变暖等等，

has to do with a partisanship

则会牵扯到党派之争

and negativity having to do with the left.

以及左派的消极情绪。

So we're kind of at each other,

我们针锋相对，

and what has happened in this, kind of, church versus reason,

而在这种教会与理性，

faith versus reason debate

信仰与理性的争论之中，

is we've created a false dichotomy

我们创建了一种错误的二元对立，

that science and religion, science and spirituality, rather,

因为科学和宗教——应该说科学和灵性

are two wings of one bird.

实际上是同一只鸟的两只翅膀。

And that bird is reality.

而这只鸟就是现实。

That they're not in opposition to each other.

这两方面并不是互相对立的。

They are very much in harmony.

相反，它们是和谐共存的。

There are two ways of understanding one reality.

它们是两种理解现实的方式。

Science understands,

科学理解现实的方式是

it's a way of processing data through experimentation.

通过实验来处理数据，

And it's also a compilation of the data

并汇集已经被编译、证明的数据。

that's been compiled, that has been proven.

And this is how we're able to have this conversation

正是有了科技，我们才能进行这个对谈，

on these laptops with these cameras over the magical interwebs,

利用我们电脑上的这些 摄像头和神奇的互联网。

is through the beauty, grandeur, majesty and amazingness of science.

这些都是受益于科学的美丽与惊人之处。

So what does spirituality do?

而灵性呢？

Well, throughout the great wisdom traditions,

纵观各种伟大的智慧传统，

throughout the great faith traditions, not only of the Abrahamic faiths,

各种伟大的信仰传统， 不仅仅是亚伯拉罕诸教，

but the eastern faiths,

还有东方的信仰，

the Daoist faiths and the Indigenous faiths,

道教以及原住民的信仰，

spiritual ideas seek to understand

灵性思想试图理解

the reality of what it is to be a human being.

我们生而为人所面对的现实。

CZ: You have a very specific prescription of how to connect with nature

卡拉：你有个很具体的措施， 关于如何通过与自然建立连结

to find that sacredness in life.

来找到生命的神圣之处。

You also talk about some personal, deep experiences

同时你也分享了你个人 这方面的一些深层次的体会。

that you had with that.

How can we bring the sacred into our lives in, you know,

我们如何让生命的神圣之处

our day-to-day lives now?

也渗透到我们的日常生活中呢？

RW: Right, so part of the spiritual journey

雷恩：嗯。我在书中所提到灵性之旅

and spiritual tools that I'm talking about in the book

以及灵性工具的一部分，

have to do with cultivating a life of deep meaning, purpose,

与建立一种具有深刻意义感、目的感、

satisfaction and well-being.

满足感和幸福感的生活有关。

So I have a section of the book on sacredness

我书里有一部分写到神圣性，

because I went on a spiritual pilgrimage in my faith tradition.

因为我参加了我的信仰 传统的一次精神朝圣。

And it was so profoundly moving to me

整个体验让我深受触动，

that there were shrines and prayer and meditation.

我去了神庙，做了许多祷告和冥想。

There was connection to beautiful nature

我们也与美丽的自然建立连结，

with a group of people from all over the world

和一群来自世界各地的人

going on this same kind of journey together.

一起踏上这趟共同的旅程。

And it was so deeply touching and meaningful.

真的非常的具有意义，让人感动。

And then I got back to my life in Los Angeles

等我重新回归到我在洛杉矶的日常生活，

and everything was like, Zoom meetings and phone calls

等待我的是视频会议， 电话，还有各种议程。

and you know, appointments.

And I've got to run to Trader Joe's.

我还得去超市买菜。

And I was realizing there is a lack of sacredness in my own life.

这使我意识到， 我自己的生活中缺乏神圣性。

And I thought that this might be an interesting cultural conversation,

因此我想，这或许是一个 有意思的文化议题：

like, can we bring the sacred to bear in our daily lives

我们能否将神圣性带入日常生活，

in such a way that it fulfills our hearts

使其充实我们的心灵，

and fills us with meaning and connection

让我们充满意义感、连结感

and transcendence?

和超验感？

One of the --

And I talk about how this doesn't necessarily need to be a shrine,

我也提到说，你不必需要一座神庙，

although it could be a place, for instance,

当然它可能是一处场所。

right outside my window here,

比如在我这扇窗户外，

I have a wooden bench that I meditate on every morning.

有一个木制长椅， 每天早晨我都在上面冥想。

So to me, that's kind of, a sacred space for me.

所以，对我来说， 这长椅便是一个神圣的空间。

It doesn't need to be a place or a space.

但你不见得需要一个场所或者空间。

It could be a pancake breakfast,

有可能是一份煎饼早餐，

it can be a condition of the heart.

或者是你内心的一种状态。

But nature is a beautiful way to find sacredness.

不过大自然确实是一个 很美的寻找神圣性的方式。

And this is something that everyone can agree on.

这一点我认为大家都不会有异议。

The people who are walking a spiritual path

有些人有自己的精神信仰，

or those who are agnostic

有些人是不知论者，

or atheist or spiritual but not religious,

是无神论者，或者相信灵性而非宗教，

we can always bask in the awe and wonder of nature.

我们总能在大自然中感到敬畏。

And I talk about specific ways

我在书里具体提到几种

to just simply increase our connection with nature.

能够增加我们和大自然的连结的方式。

You know, if you go outside three times a week, make it four.

如果你每周出门三次， 何不增加为四次呢？

If you're outside for this many days, do this.

如果你每周出门这么多天， 你可以这样做，

Like, make sure that you have at least once a year,

比如保证你每年至少有一次能够

some time in wild nature that's completely off the grid

呆在完全脱离电网的野生大自然里，

because that cultivation of awe and wonder,

因为那是种对敬畏之心的培养，

you can look at it as a spiritual experience

你可以将其看作一种灵性的体验，

or you can simply look at it as an uplifting experience

也完全可以把它看成一次积极的

for our nervous systems.

神经系统的体验。

Putting that aside, let's go back to the "Star Trek" path for a minute.

抛开这个，我们先回到 《星际迷航》这条路上来。

Again, the “Star Trek” path is about being part of making humanity deeper,

《星际迷航》之路旨在为人类变得 更深刻、更好、更具智慧做出贡献。

better and wiser.

Don't let your awe and wonder moment end

你心目中的敬畏之情

simply by an experience in the forest.

不应止步于在森林中的一个体验。

Go back home with your families, your children, your community,

回到你的家庭，子女，社区之间，

your condo association, your cul de sac,

你的公寓协会、小区，

your co-op board,

你的住房合作社里面，

do something to help preserve forests,

去为保护森林做一些实质的贡献吧。

do something for nature.

为大自然做些贡献。

Get involved in a nonprofit for climate change.

参加一个气候变化的非营利组织。

Save an animal.

拯救一只动物。

Be a part of making a difference

成为改变的一份子，

by drawing on that powerful well of awe and wonder

充分利用你的那份敬畏之情，

that you have connected with when you stood in a forest,

那份在森林里看日出时 所体会到的敬畏之心。

watching the sunrise.

CZ: I think this is a perfect transition to some of our audience questions.

卡拉：好，我们正好 过渡到观众提问环节。

We have somebody, let's see.

这里有一位观众提问。

TED member Diana writes,

TED 会员戴安娜（Diana）写道：

"You briefly mentioned yoga, church.

“你简短地提到了做瑜伽和上教堂。

If it's not those things,

如果不是通过这些，

what do you recommend that people engage with

你会推荐人们用什么方式 在灵性上成长？“

to grow spiritually?"

And I think connecting it with what you were just saying,

回到你刚刚讲的，

how do we connect the personal aspect of that spiritual growth

我们如何专注个体精神成长的同时，

to then be part of a community, to give back in service,

也成为回馈社区的一份子，

to be part of something larger than ourselves?

成为比我们更大的事物的一部分？

What does that look like?

那是什么样子的？

RW: Great question.

雷恩：好问题。

And I certainly don't mean to insult yoga.

我绝无意冒犯瑜伽。

Let’s go back to this very simple idea of “Kung Fu” and “Star Trek.”

我们先回到《功夫》和《星际迷航》 这个简单的主题上来。

So we go to yoga class, we meditate, we pray,

我们去上瑜伽课，去冥想，祈祷，

we read the texts from the holy writings that have been around

去研读历史悠久的神圣文字。

since the dawn of time.

And then we take that, just like I talked about,

然后像我刚才提到的那样， 我们利用这些，

our connection with nature, and we move it into service.

我们与大自然的联系， 化作回馈社会的力量。

Bahá‘u’lláh, the prophet founder of the Bahá’í Faith,

巴哈伊信仰的先知创始人巴哈欧拉说

said all men were created to usher forward an ever-advancing civilization.

每一个人都是为了引领人类文明的 不断进步而被创造出来。

So in this context,

这样来说，

there is a spiritual charge to all people

我们每个人在灵性上都有责任

to help make the world a better place.

让世界变得更加美好。

You can be a bus driver, a school teacher.

也许你是一位公交车司机，一位教师。

Everyone has a role to play in making the world a better place, right?

每个人都可以在让世界更美好 的进程中发挥作用，不是吗？

So you take that action, whatever it is, volunteering, working for a charity,

所以当你采取行动，不管是做 志愿者还是为慈善机构工作，

and guess what?

你猜怎么着？

When you give in service,

在服务他人的同时， 你也在给自己的心灵充电。

that actually also recharges your own spiritual batteries.

If you want increased well-being and greater happiness,

如果你想要增加幸福感，

give to others.

向他人给予吧。 与他人分享，服务他人。

Share with others, serve others.

Live in service.

带着服务的态度生活。

You recharge your batteries,

给自己充满电，

then you have even more to give and the cycle continues.

你就能给予他人更多， 而这就变成一个良性循环，

It's like a yin and yang.

就像阴和阳一样。

CZ: Our TED member Diana writes,

卡拉：TED 会员戴安娜写到：

"You mentioned that, in the '70s,

“你提到在 70 年代，

many people thought world peace was a worthy goal

许多人都认为世界和平 是一个值得追求的目标，

and now many people think it's naive.

而如今很多人却视其为天真。

What do you think is the best way to convince people

你认为我们怎样才能说服

who think wisdom equals skepticism

视怀疑主义、性恶论为睿智的人呢？”

or being ‘real’ about the darkness of humanity?”

RW: That’s such a beautiful question and well-posed.

雷恩：这是个很棒的问题，问得也很好。

I'll share a personal story that I shared in the book.

我在这里向大家分享一则 我书里提到的我个人的故事。

In my section "Seven Pillars for a Spiritual Revolution"

在《灵性革命的七大支柱》这一章，

I talk about "foster joy and cynicism."

我谈到“培养喜悦并终结犬儒主义”。

And I had an experience in New York as a young actor.

我还是一个年轻的演员时， 在纽约遇到这么一件事。

I was studying with the great acting teacher, André Gregory,

当时我师从伟大的表演老师 安德烈·格雷戈里（André Gregory），

subject of the film "My Dinner with Andre"

也是《与安德烈晚餐》这部影片的主角。

and he would meet with his acting students.

他常常和他的表演学生们见面。

And we had tea one day in his apartment and he said,

有一天，我们在他的公寓里 喝茶，他问我说：

"So Rainn, how are you doing?

“雷恩，你最近怎么样？

What's going on?"

近来如何？”

And I said, "Well, Andre, I'm feeling really down.

我回答说：“安德烈，我最近心情不好。

I'm feeling depressed, I'm feeling pessimistic, I'm feeling cynical.

感觉抑郁悲观，愤世嫉俗。

I don't feel like the world can get any better.

我觉得这世界不会变得更好了。

And I just don’t know what difference I’m making,

而且我也不知道我能为之做什么。

and I'm just feeling really down about it."

所以我对此感觉特别低落。”

And he was 70-something at the time.

安德烈当时七十多岁。

And he reached out and grabbed my arm hard

他伸出手，使劲抓住我的手臂，

and he looked right into my eyes like laser beams.

用他跟激光射线一样的眼睛直视着我。

And he goes, I'll never forget this,

我永远不会忘记他接下来的话。

he said, "Don't, don't do it!

他说：“别这样！绝对不行！

You can't do it.

你不能这样。

If you're cynical, if you're pessimistic, they win.

要是变得悲观，愤世嫉俗，他们就赢了。

If you are negative, they win.

你变得消极，他们就赢了。

You have to stay hopeful.

你必须持有希望。

You have to keep hope alive.

你必须存有希望。

You have to stay optimistic because if you're cynical,

你必须保持乐观， 因为你一旦开始愤世嫉俗，

you'll sit back on your couch and you won't do anything.

你就会躺在沙发上， 什么事也不做。

But if you stay optimistic and hopeful and positive about change,

但你若能保持乐观，充满希望， 相信改变是可能的，

then you're actually going to do something.

你就能够为之做点什么。

Don't let them win."

别让他们赢了。”

And he released me,

说完，他放开了我。

and I went out of his apartment into the West Village of Manhattan,

我从他的公寓出门，走在曼哈顿西村，

and it really stuck with me my entire life.

这段话让我终身难忘。

And I have my own internal battle because I can get very pessimistic

我也会和自己的内心斗争， 因为我有时会很阴沉负面。

and surly and negative.

My own internal battle is on a daily basis to say,

我战斗的方式是每天问我自己：

"To keep hope alive, what can I do?

“我该怎么做才能保持希望？ 我可以怎样做出改变？

How can I make a difference?

How can I make the world a better place?"

我可以怎样让世界更加美好？”

Because he's right.

因为他说得没错。

The more cynical we get and pessimistic we get,

我们越愤世嫉俗，越悲观，

especially about something as important as climate change

尤其是面对重要议题，例如气候变化

or ending racism for instance,

或是终结种族主义时，

things are just going to stay the same.

事态就越会一成不变。

CZ: I am a poet at heart, and I think we need to kind of close there.

卡拉：我本性是个诗人， 今天的谈话差不多也要结束了。

One of the poems that you include is one of my favorite poems,

你在书里引用了我最爱的一首诗，

William Carlos Williams.

来自诗人威廉·卡洛斯·威廉斯 （William Carlos Williams）。

And the poem reads,

诗里说：

"It is difficult to get the news from poems,

“从诗中难以获取新闻，

yet men die miserably every day for lack of what is found there."

但每天都有人痛苦地死去， 因为缺乏在诗里发现的东西。”

What does that have to do with spirituality to you?

对你来说，这和灵性有什么关系？

RW: It's a beautiful way to bring this conversation around.

雷恩：这是一个很好的 结束我们今天对话的方式。

When I was speaking about these pandemics, I frame it by using that poem.

我用了这首诗来表达 我们所面对的种种瘟疫。

It's a segment from a much larger poem by William Carlos Williams.

这段选自威廉斯更长的一首诗。

"It is difficult to get the news from poems,

“从诗中难以获取新闻，

yet men die miserably every day from lack of what is found there."

但每天都有人痛苦地死去， 因为缺乏在诗里发现的东西。”

What is found in poems?

我们能从诗歌中寻获到什么？

Universal human experiences,

全人类共通的体验，

transcendence, beauty.

超验感，美，

Inspiration, upliftment.

灵感，鼓舞。

A mirror being reflected toward us.

一面映向我们的镜子。

一种被讲述的故事，一种隐喻，

A kind of storytelling, a metaphorical kind of storytelling that reveals truth

揭示了人类的境况。

about the human condition.

You can't get the news from it.

从诗里，你确实听不到新闻。

But we are in a crisis right now, mental health crisis.

然而我们现在处在 一场心理健康的危机之中，

We are experiencing tremendous numbers of deaths,

有许许多多的人死去，或活在绝望中，

of despair,

and for lack of what is found in poetry.

因为我们缺乏在诗歌里能找到的东西。

And I would say that one could simply and very easily substitute spirituality

而且我们大可用 “诗”取代“灵性”一词。

for the word "poetry."

It is difficult to get the news from spirituality,

要从灵性中获知新闻的确很困难，

but yet men die miserable every day from lack of what is found there.

然而每天都有人痛苦地死去， 只因缺失在灵性中找到的东西。

There are deep, rich, profound spiritual tools,

有很多深刻、丰富的精神性工具，

writings, holy writings, wisdom traditions

文字、神圣文献，智慧传统

from Indigenous peoples, from Eastern religions,

来自于原住民、东西方宗教。

Western religions,

that again,

我们当然可以在抵制宗教 糟粕的同时扔掉灵性的精华，

if we've thrown the spiritual baby out with the religious bathwater, OK,

but are there truths there that we can draw from

但我们是否能从灵性中汲取到智慧，

to enrich our lives, again,

在《功夫》或是我们个体 这一层面上丰富我们的生活？

on a “Kung Fu” level, on a personal level?

And are there tools and wisdom and light and hope and love

另一方面，有没有智慧、希望和工具

from these great rich, ancient traditions

藏在这些伟大的古老传统中，

that can also help transform humanity

能够给全人类带来改变，

and take it on a path to ever-greater love, compassion and unity?

带领我们走向更加博爱、 同情和团结的道路？

CZ: Rainn, I am so grateful for this time, for a very profound conversation.

卡拉：雷恩，谢谢你这次给我们 带来了这么深刻的对话。

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