Comparing life during lockdown in China & England

Hello, this is Gill at engVid, and today we have another remotely recorded interview for you

with someone I've known for a few years, Michelle. So Michelle, thank you for being with us

in this sort of cyberspace. I know we're many miles apart at the moment,

but we have also met in person many times in the UK. So here we are, because, again, in the UK,

I'm still in partial lockdown here, so that's why we're doing this recording this way, using Zoom.

So my guest then, Michelle, thank you for being here, and would you like to tell us a little bit

about yourself, Michelle, and where you're from, your profession, your interests, where you are at

the moment? Sure. Hi, everyone. Hi, Gill. I'm Michelle. I'm from China, and currently I'm

living in Jiangsu province. Well, it's close to Shanghai, if you've never heard of this province.

I used to work in banking for a few years, but now I'm studying traditional Chinese medicine

full-time. I'm into cultural stuff, traditional stuff. Okay. Okay. Well, that's really interesting.

Thank you. So you've been in the UK. You have a base in the UK, but I think because when the pandemic

started, you happened to be in China visiting your family. So maybe you wouldn't normally be there,

because partly because of lockdown and so on. Yes, it's really interesting. You know,

your life plans can be interrupted really suddenly, and yeah, it's a little bit of a shame

that I wouldn't be able to travel freely as I want to this year, but thankfully now we have

internet, so we can still stay connected. And also now I'm able to study remotely with the

institution teaching me Chinese medicine. So I'm actually making quite steady progress,

because you get less distraction from the outside physical world when you can't really move much.

So it turns out to be quite productive and fruitful for my study.

Okay, that's great. So you've been staying at home for quite a few months, I imagine.

Yeah, I'm studying remotely. That really takes up most of my time.

Okay. And so I think in China, the lockdown was very sort of strict, wasn't it, when it started?

It was.

So what was it like in practical terms, you know, getting food and just managing day-to-day?

How has it been?

Sure. I think perhaps it was similar to what you are experiencing now. Or actually,

there is a gradual easing in London, so I guess perhaps you could go out more yourself. You know,

we've been there perhaps two months earlier than you, and we have to order food in a bunk,

and fortunately, the grocer is able to deliver to our doorstep. So we stay indoors

100% of the time, really. And that kind of situation continues for about three months.

Then gradually, you know, the pandemic looks like, you know, got brought under control,

at least for our region. So now we have kind of an unofficial lifting of the lockdown. So

now I really seek the opportunity, and I go out every day for two hours. I don't go out

and I go out every day for two hours in the early morning to have a long walk around the lake,

but I'm still very conscious about the two-metre distance from other people.

But I think the pandemic really changed people's behaviour and attitude,

at least from what I saw. You know, now most people are still wearing masks,

and people are, you know, conscious of not getting too close to each other.

That's good. I think people in the UK need to take note of that, really, because there's been

a lot of discussion about, you know, is it any good wearing a mask, you know? And even

since the lockdown started here in March, people were going out for shopping and not bothering

to wear a mask. And, I mean, I did. Personally, I wore a mask. I've been wearing a mask every time

I've gone shopping, but so many people haven't been bothering, as if, oh, it's just optional.

I think people need to, you know, really be careful.

I think here, actually, there is a cultural difference, because in China, you know,

you know, people are very well educated that during, you know, flu season or anything that

is easily spreadable or contactable, you know, is advisable to wear masks and is very well

received by people, you know, for many, many years. So we have no problem in accepting the idea that

wearing masks for your own benefit and for the benefit of people around you. And we don't have

any psychological barrier or, you know, any feeling of embarrassing, that type of thing,

because we have been doing this anyway. That's good. I think, you know, it's partly that people

feel embarrassed. They think, oh, I will look stupid if I put a mask on, you know. That's not

the issue, really, but the issue is to survive and to stay healthy, isn't it, really? And so things

have been getting a lot easier then in your part of the country. So you've been able to get out.

Have you been able to visit friends and family as well as going for walks on your own?

Yes, but still on very limited occasions. Again, because people are still worried about,

you know, some, they call them people, symptom persons, i.e. people carrying virus but not showing

any symptoms. So we are still avoiding kind of a large-scale gathering. But recently, me, mom,

and my aunt, we got together to make some traditional pancakes because we ran out of stock

and it's not easy, really, to buy them as it used to be. They are not, you know, as available as

they were before. So, you know, I went without the kind of traditional bread for a while and finally,

I missed it so much, so I decided, okay, I'm going to roll up my sleeves and make them myself.

And I got support from my mom and aunt. I didn't have any skill before, so it's a training from

scratch. I think I sent you a video clip of how to make the pancake.

Yes, and I just happened to have it handy here at my fingertips. If I can just do a bit of

screen sharing here, if you could bear with me for one moment. So this is you here turning a pancake

and is that your mom behind you there? Yes, mom is preparing the dough. And my aunt is opposite my mom,

but you couldn't see her. Actually, she was rolling out the dough and I was cooking the,

I was cooking the bread. So it's like a pancake or it's an extremely thin bread cooked on stove.

That's amazing. That's really good. And I must play that just once more so that we

can see every little detail.

That's so skillful, the way you're turning it in a stick.

And how did it taste? Did it taste good?

Oh yes, it's made from plain flour.

Yeah, so it's extremely good for wrapping other dishes. So, you know,

Chinese are famed for their stir-fries. So lots of stir-fried food can go inside and they really

match, they really go well. So actually, it's interesting, this type of thin bread,

they are available perhaps in many provinces in China, but this type made from plain flour

and cooked this way is really unique to my region. It's quite indigenous in a way.

Okay, so you had the opportunity to go back to a traditional recipe and a traditional way of

making something at home that you would normally buy maybe in the supermarket.

Definitely, because it takes a lot of manual work. For example, if we're going to do this,

we're going to plan an afternoon's time, for example.

Yes, so it takes longer. And I think there's something similar that has happened in the UK.

People have been baking much more, baking bread, baking cakes. Every time I went to the

supermarket, there was no flour, it had all sold out. Everyone was buying packets of flour

to make their own food. So it was a big sort of people taking photographs and sharing on social

media. So I think similar things have been happening in different countries in that way.

It's almost like a global cooking friendly.

Yes, because people have more time available. And also they can't buy them in the shop. So

they think, oh, well, we'll make it to the home then. So it must be quite a nice sort of social

activity too, to do as a family group.

Definitely. And you will be chatting with each other while cooking.

Okay, that's really good. I can see you're having a really nice time together there.

That's great. Thank you for sharing it with me. So, perhaps, could I ask about, you speak English

very fluently and very well. So can you take me back to maybe when you were at school? Is that

when you first started to learn English from your school days?

Yes. So in my generation, we started around 12 years old. So when we entered middle school,

we started to learn English. But as far as I know, for the current young generation,

they start as early as three or four years old. And the primary school would have English as a

major subject. So I think they would speak even better English than my generation.

Yeah. And, you know, China's country plays a huge emphasis on

kind of a fundamental of education. So perhaps, comparing to the West,

it is relatively lacking in kind of creative nurturing. But the foundation is quite solid.

So in English, you know, children have lots of practice in grammar, in written English.

So I think when I was working in London, my colleague told me my English writing and my

grammar, you know, are better than most of British people. So I think that perhaps is a benefit from

my education back home. But I think in terms of listening skills and spoken English, really, I made

progress really in when I after I arrived in London, actually.

OK, so that that's interesting, because I think a lot of people tell me who have learned English

at school from different countries, that they did a lot of reading and writing,

but they have less opportunity to practice listening and speaking. So I think that that's

true from a lot of countries. So so maybe perhaps you could tell us a little bit about when you

first came to the UK, the first few months and when you started working in, I think,

in an office environment. What was it like being in a new country, starting a new job,

everyone speaking and working in English? What was that like?

Well, I think my impression, my biggest impression was the the importance of self-reliance,

because I think the Western culture generally, you know, plays a great importance on individually,

though. And you are expected to stand on your own two feet, you know, and you are expected to

learn individually, though. And you are expected to stand on your own two feet.

So I figured that I had to be a very quick learner because I noticed that, you know,

everyone else is under pressure themselves, you know, in a commercial environment especially.

So people, they don't really have the time or patience to teach you the same thing twice.

So you've got to learn fast.

Right. So you had to learn as you went along, really, the best way of doing each thing.

Absolutely. And I think it's also important to observe, see how other people, local people,

are interacting with each other, how they are doing things. So you could get a pretty good

idea quickly, you know, of a local customs and etiquette, you know, start from mimicking.

Ah, okay. Interesting.

And I think also don't be held back by any thought that, "Oh, I might make a mistake.

I'm going to embarrass myself. Oh, I'm going to show, you know, my disadvantage or my weakness.

How are people going to think?" Well, actually, you know, just go and do things because if you

make a mistake, it's better to make them early when people still have, people still expect you

to and they're going to correct you and you're going to learn really fast.

Yes, I think you're right. I think a lot of people feel reluctant to speak and people

sometimes think, "Oh, I've got to speak in a perfect grammatical sentence." When in fact,

the way people speak, we don't tend to speak in perfect grammatical sentences. We

tend to speak in short phrases, I think, you know, we get a thought in our head, put it in a few

words and then another thought and another few words. So people, you know, some people

are reluctant to speak because they think they've got to speak the way you read sentences from a

book. But I think it's quite different, isn't it, from reading and writing. Whereas with speaking,

it's much more spontaneous and more in sort of little bits rather than sentences. I don't know

if you found that. I see. I think it really takes time to perfect, you know, any skill. So

you can't be too harsh on yourself because you are not perfect yet and thus you just never start

out. I think that way you will never make it. Yeah, just go ahead. I remember, you know,

in my first year of working in a front office and I was in a client lounge, really. There's a dish,

you know, a seafood dish with lime, the green vegetable, lime on the plate. And I asked my

client, "Would you like lemon?" And the lady corrected me, "It's lime." Okay, I learnt it.

Actually, you know, I'm still amazed myself, you know. I wasn't feeling really embarrassed. I was

just like, "Okay, I learnt it." And from then on, I will always know it's lime and it's different

from lemon. So I think it's just, you know, no matter how well prepared you are back home, you

know, you can't avoid making mistakes in real life. And it's not a failure, you know. Actually,

mistakes, if you learn from it, equals progress. So, you know, treat it positively. Absolutely.

And, you know, lemons and limes are very similar. Just apart from the colour, they look very similar,

don't they? And it's also just, you know, people realise that you're human, you know. If everyone

was absolutely perfect about everything, you would think, "Oh, gosh." You know, but we're all human.

So sometimes people will like you more if someone makes a little mistake. It's sort of, it's more

human, in a way, isn't it? So it's not a big deal. And, you know, people just move on from that.

Absolutely. Especially if people notice that you are getting better and better.

They're going to admire you for that.

Absolutely. That's it. So then, thinking about being in the UK and working here,

and in the UK and working here, when you are in the UK, as you often are,

are there things that you miss about China when you're in the UK? Or the other way around,

are there things in the UK that you miss when you're in China? Anything like that?

I see. Well, I think the UK really has really amazing access to beautiful sceneries,

countryside, green spaces. It's really wonderful. But it's local food. It's, you know, relatively

dull. But in London, you know, London is a magnet and has world-class cuisines,

you know, all kinds of world-class cuisines from famous chefs. So I think your palate will

be satisfied in London. But once you go to other kind of more provincial places, then

you're going to miss Chinese food, which is very stimulating and has a great many varieties.

Yes, yes. Yes, I can imagine. I guess there are areas of the UK you might have, you know,

local dishes, things like Yorkshire pudding, Lancashire hot pot, different types of regional

food. But I think traditionally, the UK is sort of meat and two types of vegetable.

You know, people joke about it a little bit. It may seem a little bit dull after a while.

Heavy and hearty, very comforting food. Yes, yes. Filling, I think, filling, lots of potato

usually. And people love chips, you know. But I know what you mean about Chinese food. It's

very colorful, very tasty, you know, a lot of variety. So, so are there things about the UK

that you miss when you're in China? I miss my trekking in the beautiful countryside.

Ah, yes. So you'd like to go for country walks when you're here in the UK?

Yes. You know, the kind of 10 miles per day or even more.

So would that be, would you go out of London into the countryside? Would you have a walk around

London streets exploring? Or what would you do usually? When I first came to London, I'm kind of,

I was more a metropolitan person. I would be happy to go into, you know, individual street

just to explore because London has so much to offer. But when I got familiar with the city,

then I became more of a nature person. So usually I'd take a train from a station,

have a 30 minutes or to one hour journey out and do a proper, you know, trekking there.

My favorite trekking place actually is from Seven Sisters. From, oh, oh, yeah, from Seaford

to Eastbourne. Oh, to Eastbourne on the south coast. We were talking about the south coast

in another interview, but that was for a different reason. So Eastbourne in Sussex

is a very popular seaside resort of the UK. So you love Eastbourne.

Yeah. So the white cliff between Eastbourne and Seaford. Oh, Seaford. Yes. Along the coast,

it must be. How many miles? Just a few miles walk, is it, along the cliffs?

I think it's perhaps 11 or 12 miles. Okay. So I'd walk from Seaford station to Eastbourne station.

It doesn't take up a whole day, but, you know, there is a wonderful stop in the middle where

you could have lunch just on the cliff, just beside the cliff and have just a breathtaking view.

So that's the, the cliffs are called the Seven Sisters, aren't they?

Is that right? Yes. The White Chore Cliff. Yes. A bit like Dover. People talk about the

White Cliffs of Dover in Kent, which is further to the east, but Seaford and the Seven Sisters are

seven sort of large white cliffs, aren't they, I think. So I've been to Eastbourne and I've been

to Seaford separately, but I've never walked between the two. So maybe that's something I

should try sometime. So thank you for the recommendation there. Absolutely. It sounds

lovely. Okay. So that's great. That sounds wonderful. And the sea air, of course, is very

healthy to be walking along the coast. Very refreshing. Very healthy, refreshing air. That's

right. Especially when you got a bit worn out by maybe the stress of working and living in London,

perhaps, you know, which is a highly competitive and fast paced place. It's really a recharge,

a reboot for you, you know. Absolutely. Yes. Lovely. Sounds fantastic. Okay. And so would you

say, would you say your English has improved since, I mean, you've been based in the UK for

a few years now, and we've known each other a few years. So would you say your English,

I imagine it, it has improved over the years, simply being in an English speaking country

all this time. So how would you say your English has developed? Hmm. I think,

I can think of two milestones, perhaps. The first one is about the accreditation of English way of

thinking. In my first two years of arriving in London, I think my English was reasonably clear

back then, although with a noticeable Chinese accent. Well, I still do. However,

my colleagues found me hard to understand because I was still thinking in the Chinese way,

and I was literally, you know, translating my thoughts into English.

It really took me, I think, at least two years to make that a mental transformation

to think in the English way. And after I could do that,

my communication with others become really smooth. Oh, that's great. So I think this,

you know, other people say this, you know, they sort of realized, oh gosh, I'm thinking in English,

you know, not just speaking in English, but automatically thinking in English as well.

Yeah, I feel language is really, it's a cultural thing, really. It's a carrier. It's almost like

a carrier of, you know, intention, culture, and information. So you have to be properly aligned

with the culture, you know, then you could really seamlessly, you know, speak it really.

Okay, that's great. Lovely. So, and do you feel you've developed in terms of your vocabulary

and fluency and how you express ideas and so on? That's the second milestone for me.

It was made after I started taking lessons in diction and evocation. And I owe it to you,

Gill. I think I started, I think I, you know, studied with you since about 2013, something

like that. I noticed the constant positive change in people's perception of my presentations and

speeches with some improvement in my diction. That's great. And way of speaking, etc.

And this in turn really has enhanced my self-esteem. So it has created a very positive

loop. It's a feedback loop like that. Oh, that's great. That's really good.

I feel that, you know, I think I kind of overstate the importance of

elocution. Now we live in a world of communication and connectedness, really.

And maybe, you know, to speak with a native English person, you know, you hear the language

spoken by someone who's, you know, it's their first language. I guess that that's,

you know, to spend many hours over the years speaking to native English speakers,

it sort of makes a difference gradually as time goes on. Absolutely, that is indispensable.

I think, maybe I'm saying, I'm not to dishearten, you know, eager English learners in non-English

speaking country. But I'd say, you know, try as you hard, it definitely help. You're going to

build up a really good foundation. But set a right expectation, because, you know, the world

experience of speaking to native speaker, working with them, living in their environment,

it's just irreplaceable in your development of English skill. So, build up a strong foundation

before you come, but expect that you still have a quite steep learning curve to climb.

Okay. And so, that's very good advice for anybody, you know, just to, you know, speak, don't worry

about mistakes, as you were saying earlier, and just absorb, absorb the language, and so on. Is

there any other final bit of advice you would give to anyone planning to come to live in the UK, work

or study here? Any particular advice you would give? Observe, be a keen observer, and really

see how local people interact with each other. Seize opportunities to take part in events or

activities, because if you can socialize with local people, you're going to, you're going to

improve really fast. That's great. And as I mentioned before, don't be afraid to make mistakes.

The more you do, actually, the faster you learn, the faster you learn. So, don't worry, people won't

necessarily laugh at you, because they expect you to do so, especially if you are coming from a

non-English speaking country. Okay, that's really helpful. Thank you. So, okay, Michelle, thank you

so much for your time, for spending some time talking about your experiences of English learning,

being in the UK, and telling us more about yourself. It's been great talking with you.

Lovely talking to you too. Thank you, and I'd like to wish you all the best with your continuing

medical studies as well. So, that sounds really good. And so, thank you. And just to say to

everyone watching, do look out for other interviews that we're gradually doing. And if you have any

suggestions for questions I could ask people as we continue, do put in the comments under the video,

either on YouTube or on the engVid website, suggestions for questions. And I'll be

interviewing guests from different countries as time goes on. So, thank you for watching,

and thank you again, Michelle, for being with us. And if you haven't yet subscribed to my channel,

if you're enjoying the videos, please subscribe, and hope to see you again soon. Okay, so,

bye for now, from both of us. Bye.