English Expert Reveals How To Improve Your Speaking Skills

Today I'm very excited because  we have a special guest.

We have Keith from the very popular YouTube  channel English Speaking Success, and Keith  

will be sharing his best tips and advice to help  you feel confident speaking in any situation.

Welcome, Keith.

It's so wonderful to have you here.

Hi Jennifer, it's wonderful to be here.

Thank you so much for inviting me to come along.

I'm very excited to share some ideas with  with you and all the students watching.

Oh, that's wonderful.

Now, Keith, every day I get messages  from my students telling me that they  

can read in English, they can write  in English, but they can't speak.

They're struggling with their speaking,  especially with native speakers.

So what do you think?

Why are so many students struggling  with their speaking skills?

I guess it goes back to our educations at school.

I, I think where a lot of people learn English is  at school and there, because the classes are so  

big, then you know, teachers tend to focus  on, on reading skills and writing skills.

We, we read, we discover English through  books, we read it, we analyse the language,  

maybe do a bit of listening practice,  but very rarely do speaking practice.

So I guess a lot of students  over the years learning English,  

they don't actually get a  chance to practice speaking.

And, and I think then when  the time comes to speak,  

they just don't have the confidence  because they've not practiced that.

I, I think with any skill, if you haven't  practiced it and you suddenly have to do it,  

then it's quite nerve wracking and you, you know,  

you lose your confidence and then you can  go down this vicious cycle going downwards.

So I think, yeah, it's to do with that.

I think it's the the background of learning  English not enough focus on speaking practice.

Yeah, that that makes a lot of sense.

And that is the one thing I  hear from students a lot is I  

want to speak but I don't have the opportunity.

And, and you mentioned something about that,  

that fear they get because  they don't have the exposure.

So I hear that a lot from students.

They're afraid of making grammar mistakes or  a big one is they're afraid of being judged,  

judged by native speakers because  of their accent or their English.

So what advice would you have for  these students who are struggling  

with those feelings of fear and nervousness?

I think when it comes to fear, I  mean, I, I don't know what you think,  

but I, I think a lot of native  speakers are not so judgmental.

They, they won't, they're very rarely going to  

correct your grammar because most native  speakers may not know how how to do that.

So they're probably not going  to correct your grammar.

They, they, you know, they won't correct  your accent or laugh at your accent.

I think by and large, most native  speakers are kind of open minded  

with that and they're not going  to have a problem with that.

I think where the problem comes is  where if because of your grammar  

mistakes or your accent or pronunciation,  communication breaks down and they don't  

understand what you're trying to say,  then yes, there's going to be a problem.

And they'll be like, oh, well,  I don't want to speak to them.

I can't communicate with them.

And so there is that, that problem  that if communication breaks down,  

but communication can break down  in different situations, right?

It can, it can break down due to mistakes,  

but it can also break down if you  just go quiet or speak slowly.

You know, some students don't want  to make a mistake, so they go very  

slowly and they they do each word by word and  then communication breaks down because the,  

the listener is not following what you're  saying or is getting bored and walks away.

So I think there's a balance between  the accuracy and the fluency.

You know, you, you, you want to, you don't want  to be too thinking too much about your mistakes.

Just try and communicate, just speak out, go with  the flow, but be aware that if you are making a  

lot of mistakes, you'll see it in the eyes of the  listener that the communication is broken down.

So you need that kind of balance of just speaking,  outgoing with the flow, but being aware you're not  

making too many mistakes grammatically,  vocabulary or pronunciation mistakes.

So that balance is is an important one.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense because if you're  just focused on making mistakes, you're forgetting  

that you're talking to someone because of an idea  you're sharing or a conversation you're having.

So you should really be focusing more on that.

And you mentioned that of course,  you do need to have the fluency,  

have the grammar, have the vocabulary.

So how do you balance the need to focus on  these technical English skills like grammar,  

vocabulary, but then also get the exposure,  also get the practice, the speaking practice?

Oh, that's a very good question.

How do you balance both of those?

I, I think it, it, it does, as you say, it  comes through, it comes through practice.

There are different kinds  of practice that you can do.

There's practice you can do on your  own where you're just listening and  

repeating and listening and repeating  and maybe making up some sentences.

And there you can focus much more  on the accuracy because you're on,  

you're on your own, you're at home.

Maybe you're recording yourself and you you  just practice repeating, making up sentences.

You can record and listen back  and focus on getting accurate.

But then on the other hand,  you've got practice where  

you're engaging with other people and  where you're communicating your idea.

And that's your chance really to focus on that  

kind of communication rather  than the grammar vocabulary.

Just get your idea across and  try and it it's hard to do,  

but be comfortable with the level that you're at.

I, I think a big frustration with a lot  of students, especially IL students,  

is they try to be at a higher level  more quickly when they're not ready.

And so you're trying to use complex language  and you're making more mistakes where as if  

you come back to your level and try and speak  at the level that you're at as well as you can,  

you're going to improve your fluency  with the language that you know.

So I think there's there's that happening as well.

Yeah, you raised a great point.

I love what you said about that balance  because if you spend time doing both,  

you're you have the structured practice  where you're focusing on that accuracy,  

but then you have the practice where you're  focusing on just conversation and communicating.

Now, what would you say to that student who  wants to sound more advanced in English,  

but their fluency isn't there yet?

What what should they do?

Just focusing on the words that they now know or  should they focus on trying to add more words?

What strategies do you have for that student?

It has to be both of those  it, I think it has to be in,  

in conversations, focus on the fluency,  focus on using the words that you know.

And because if you're using language  you're comfortable with, you're going  

to feel more confident and you're going to  be speaking more fluently in the background.

Of course, you always need  to be studying and learning,  

expanding your vocabulary, grammar  that you use up to a higher level.

So you always want to be curious to learn new  language and to grow the level that you're at.

So you need both of those activities.

And I kind of make it sound like  they're two separate activities.

And by and large, they may be,  but they may be intermingled.

You know, you may be having  a conversation with someone  

and they use an expression you've never heard.

And you say, well, that's interesting.

And then at the end of the conversation,  

you just make a note and say,  oh, I must, I must remember that.

It's really good.

So they may be intermingled, but I  think you need to do both both things.

Yeah, that's great advice.

And in reality, that sounds like how we would  learn basically anything or improve any skill.

Because if you're going to the gym, you focus  on the exercises, you know, but every day you  

might try to push yourself a little bit more,  run a little longer or lift heavier weights.

And it's just always a a gradual process and, and  basically everything that we do and improving.

Yeah.

Oh, absolutely.

I love the comparison to the gym.

I think a lot of the English workout  practice is like being at a gym, right?

Repetitions and repetitions.

But then you increase the weight.

You're increasing the complexity of the  vocabulary maybe, but not too much step by step.

Yeah, exactly.

And there's this concept with working out  that if you're, if you're not uncomfortable,  

if you don't feel the pain, then  you're not really working out.

You're you're not pushing your  body, you're doing things too easy.

Now, a lot of students, they say that,  oh, speaking is so uncomfortable.

I feel awkward, I feel embarrassed.

But is that feeling of  discomfort or that awkwardness,  

do you think that's just a  natural part of speaking?

Or do you think that something is is wrong if  you do feel uncomfortable when you're speaking?

Such a good question.

I think there are going to be situations  where you feel uncomfortable when like  

as you said with any activity, if you're  pushing yourself out of your comfort zone,  

sometimes that's the only  way to get better, right?

As you said with the gym, if  you're lifting 5 kilos every day,  

you're never going to get stronger.

Some point you have to.

I wouldn't call it pain, but I would call it  pushing yourself a little bit and and then,  

yeah, you're going to feel a bit uncomfortable.

But then the more you do  that, you get relaxed again.

And then you go through the cycle again.

Like, like, you know, when you start a new job,  

first day you're a bit nervous,  you're not comfortable.

But as you speak to people, get to know  a few people, you feel more relaxed.

Then you meet some more people you don't know,  a bit nervous and then you get more comfortable.

So you go through that cycle.

I think it's, it's perfectly good and fine  to feel a bit uncomfortable some of the time,  

but I think when you're, if it's, so  long as you've got enough situations  

where you feel comfortable with  English, then that's also good.

I mean, I, I think as you've mentioned earlier,  

enjoying your English and  your study is so important.

And you know, you, you want to  feel relaxed a lot of the time,  

but maybe sometimes you're  pushing the envelope a bit.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

And to end off this gym analogy, you don't  want to be in constant pain the whole time,  

but at some point during your one hour at the  gym, you want to push yourself a little bit.

So I love how you talk about that balance.

That makes a lot of sense.

Thank you for sharing that.

Now you shared with me before we began  this interview that you live in Spain,  

you have learned Spanish for a very long time.

So tell us what's it like for you when you go  out and speak Spanish as a second language,  

as your non-native language with native speakers?

Do you have any feelings of  nervousness or discomfort?

Do you have situations where you  pause and your mind goes blank?

Just share your personal experience and some  

perhaps things that you've done  to help you communicate better.

Right, well, when I go out into the big Spanish  world and I, I speak Spanish, I, I'm fairly  

comfortable most of the time and especially with  people I know like so I live in the countryside.

So the neighbours around here, we  say hello everyday, we have a chat,  

feel perfectly comfortable, go  to the local shop, I feel fine.

But interestingly, if I go to a new shop,  like a new greengrocer's or a new butcher's,  

and especially that situation where you're in  a queue and everybody's waiting and then you've  

got people behind you and the pressure  is like the whole world is watching you.

I do get nervous in Spanish and  I find that quite difficult.

I find understanding fine, but  speaking out, sometimes I, I hesitate.

I think, I think what goes  through my mind is that,  

yeah, it's, it's kind of they're going  to know that I'm not a Spanish person.

And then that makes me a bit nervous.

But as a friend said to me  early on, they said that Keith,  

when they look at your face, they know  you're not Spanish even before you speak.

So what are you worried about?

I thought, ah, OK.

Yeah, that's true.

So I do sometimes get nervous.

I tell you what I do when I go into conversations,  

like at parties with people is against  my nature, which is quite introverted.

I become deliberately extrovert and I just go  

and speak to people and start  controlling the conversation.

So I just go in and start talking and talking and  talking and then let the conversation develop.

Because what I noticed is if I don't  do that, I end up listening to people.

The more I listen, the more nervous I get.

The less I speak, the less confidence I have.

Whereas if I jump in first without  even thinking and just start speaking,  

I feel a bit more confident.

And then also the other people can  work out my level of Spanish and go,  

OK, he's, he's OK, but he's not great.

We need to adapt a bit to him.

And, and I try and do that.

That's my strategy for controlling  my feelings in a conversation.

If that makes.

Sense.

Well, that's a great tip  and congratulations because  

that's not easy to do when you're a  self-proclaimed introvert as well.

To just get out there and start a  conversation, that takes a lot of bravery.

So for all the students watching, I  hope you find inspiration in that.

I certainly do.

So great job with that, Keith.

Yeah, it's not easy, but practice, it's  something I've practiced and I just come to do.

Yeah.

And I'm sure the 1st 30 seconds are the  worst, but then once the conversation  

is going it's probably like OK you can  relax and just focus on the conversation.

Yes, we fear the unknown, don't we?

And so as soon as you break that barrier.

Then it's better exactly.

Now let's shift a little and talk  about the IELTS because I know this  

is something that you help your students  prepare for on your YouTube channel.

And I know that there are many students watching  

right now who are preparing either for  their IELTS right now or in the future.

So let's let's start with  just a basic IELTS question  

and we'll expose students to an IELTS question.

So I know probably the first  question they might ask you  

is and all I want you to answer as if  this were the IELTS, so I'll ask you.

So Keith, where are you from?

Manchester.

Manchester, OK, Manchester.

Now, is that actually a good answer for the?

IELTS.

No, sorry.

That's that's a terrible answer, isn't it?

That's a terrible answer.

Yeah.

I think the first golden rule of IELTS  is don't give one word answers, right?

Like yes or no.

A much better answer would be I'm from Manchester,  

which is in the north of England,  maybe two hours from London by train.

OK, so you have your answer, which of  course is where you're from Manchester,  

but then you put it in a full sentence.

But then I really like what you did there.

You added on a fact about Manchester.

So what's the strategy there?

You take your simple answer, you put it in a full  sentence, and then what do you do after that?

You've hit the nail on the head.

You, you, you take your answer, you make it  into a sentence and then you add an extra bit  

of information, something that maybe is  natural that you might say to somebody.

And, and yeah, you, you keep it short and  concise because at the beginning of the test,  

what they call Part 1, you want  like two or three sentence answers.

You don't, you don't want to give the history  of Manchester right and bore the examiner.

But just, yeah, develop your  answer a little bit like that.

OK.

And what is another question  they would ask you in Part 1?

So they might ask you, do  you work or do you study?

OK, OK, well let's let's see how you answer  this for the IELTS and everyone think about  

how you would answer and then follow tips or  follow Keith's tips and follow the structure  

that he uses after to practice your answer.

OK, Keith, so do you work or do you study?

Well, I work, I'm a full time teacher,  

and I give online lessons to students  around the world who want to learn.

English.

Oh, very nice.

So your your answer is of course  I work and then you put that in  

your full sentence and then  you provide of an an add on.

What would you call that?

An add on I?

Like that, an add on.

That's very nice.

Yes, I think I'll steal that if I can add on.

I call it like extra  information but I prefer add on.

Yeah.

You know, I have to be honest, Keith, I  find that this strategy would be really  

helpful for even native speakers because at  the end of the day, I'll go down and I'll,  

my husband and I usually have a coffee around  4:00 and I'll say, oh, so how was your day?

And guess what?

He usually.

Says fine.

It was good, fine, good, and it's.

Like and you're like, come on.

We haven't seen each other in  eight hours and all I get is good.

So.

Let's imagine, let's imagine that you're you're  a student at this could be for the IELTS or  

even just socially and someone asked you a  simple question like how was your weekend?

What would you say could be a  good answer to that question?

I had a really good weekend actually.

I was at home on Saturday.

I didn't do very much but actually  on Sunday I washed the car 'cause it  

was getting so dirty and now it's speak and span.

Oh, I love that.

And everyone think of conversations you even have  

in your native language and how you  might just answer very short answers.

But how can you have a conversation  with someone when they just say good?

So again, Keith, do you want to  walk students through maybe some  

strategies that they can use to provide  these fuller, more complete answers?

Yeah, I I think I mean, before I do, I just,  

I'm going to add to what you said  because it's really important.

I think that some students think IELTS is like a  

formal academic exam that  you need special English.

It's not it's a test of  your natural spoken English.

So you just want to speak naturally as you would  to a friend over coffee or as you would in in  

any kind of a meeting, somebody you don't  know at a party, the same kind of language.

And as you said, Jennifer, the idea of.

Communicating at work or at a party  socially, make it easy for people, right?

Give, give them a bit more language, something  that they or ideas that they can talk about.

And I think it's the same with the IELTS test.

So I think as as students developing your  answer, there are three parts to IELTS in Part 1.

Give short answers, maybe two to three sentences.

Be direct, right?

If they say where are you from, don't  make it a mystery and make them guess.

Just say dum, I'm from New  Delhi and then add a bit more.

I think what's more challenging  is is in part three of the test,  

it becomes a deeper conversation.

So it's more abstract.

They may ask you about the development  of cities in the last 20 years.

You know, how have they changed?

And there you, you want to not only  answer and develop your answer,  

but I think that my it would be to give  an example and through your example,  

you can show off more language  and give a longer answer.

So I don't know if you're talking about cities  developing, you can say nowadays cities have a  

lot of bus lanes, especially for the bus  and they have digitalised bus schedules.

For example, in New York they've got and you,  

you know, you go into the details of a  specific example that can be a strategy.

Yeah, that's a really great strategy.

And like we were talking about, the  strategy won't just help you for your IELTS.

So this isn't wasted time just to get a piece  of paper that says you passed your IELTS.

This is how strategies to help  you communicate in meetings or  

parties or even with your husband  and your family, like I just gave to  

make more meaningful conversation or  more connection with people as well.

Yeah, it's all about communication.

The more you focus on communication, the better.

With IELTS, don't get wrapped  up in fancy advanced vocabulary.

Just focus on communication as much  as you can and make it natural.

Now, so on your alts though, so they're  not judging you based on oh, you must  

use the past perfect in order to get a high score.

It's just if it naturally, the sentence  structure requires the past perfect,  

you use it, but you don't have to use  certain grammar or certain vocabulary.

It's just natural communication.

That is a very, very, very  good way of expressing it.

Yes, it it's very much that  you to get a high score.

If you look at the examiner's description of  a high score, it is for example, a band 8.

Use a wide range of simple and complex  grammar, but it has to be situation specific.

So if you're just rolling off the  pass perfect without it being the  

correct tense at that time, then it's a big cross.

But if you're using it because it's the right  moment for that situation to use it, it's great.

But if you never use the past perfect,  you can still get a band 9, the top score.

They're not ticking off all the different tenses.

It's it's situation specific, you know?

So if you're talking about an event that  happened before something in the past,  

voila, you need your past perfect.

But if you're just trying to squeeze  it in somehow, it doesn't work.

Well, I hope that brings some  relief to students and that,  

you know, it is just natural communication.

So thank you for sharing that, Keith.

And I know your channel has many  resources to help students prepare.

So for, of course, all my students can check  all those individual lessons and resources out.

Now I want to ask you just more generally,  

whether it's for the IL, it's a  job interview, a presentation.

Do you have any specific strategies that  students can use to practice and prepare?

Especially since students are probably  thinking I don't have anyone to practice with.

I live in a country where there are  no native speakers, so how can these  

students practice their speaking skills if  they don't have anyone to practice with?

Do you have any specific advice or resources?

Sure.

I think there are two different things you can do.

One is you can you can practice  on your own where you're kind of  

listening and repeating and try  and make up different sentences.

Actually in my, this is going to  sound like an advert, but it's not.

In my online courses, we use something called  the Speaking Success System and it's a series  

of videos with me where I talk you through using  different grammar and vocabulary and getting you  

to change the word, change the tense and and make  it slightly different so that you're practicing.

But with a video, you're just repeating, but  you're thinking about the words that you're using.

And it's a great, it's a really nice  way to practice and you can use that  

to build up your confidence in your language.

On the other hand, you also, if you can practice  with other people, because when you're speaking  

in conversation, that's where you've got  the etiquettes of communication, right?

How do you interrupt people?

How do you take turns?

How do you listen?

How do you ask all of that and then practice that?

I think I don't know, I mean, this sounds a bit  harsh, but nowadays there's no excuses, right?

If you go on the Internet, there are so  many places you can connect with other,  

maybe not native speakers, but other people  practising and speaking from around the world.

There are a lot of them are free as well.

And I know sometimes they're challenging  that it's not the perfect experience,  

but often it's better than nothing.

And even if it doesn't work the first time,  I think you need to keep trying and trying  

and try again because you may have one bad  experience where somebody wasn't very friendly,  

but it's just once and, you know, maybe  try different areas, different places.

But I think, yeah, get on the Internet and  push yourself out of your comfort zone, right?

Often that's the block.

It's like, Oh my God, I'm too nervous.

I can't do that.

I can't speak to anybody.

Just try.

Just try once and then that's it.

Never again.

But then try again and try again and try again.

Keep.

Keep going.

Yeah, absolutely.

I love how you said that and  and I agree it's not harsh.

With the resources we have  today, there are no excuses.

So get out there and like you said,  just push yourself a little bit as well.

Now, you've already provided  so many tips and resources,  

and your channel is filled with them as well.

But Keith, just to make this  very practical for my students,  

if my students were only to do  one thing, just one thing this  

week to improve their English speaking  skills, what should that one thing be?

I'm tempted to say go to my YouTube channel  English Speaking success but I won't.

No, you absolutely can and should.

Your channel is and should and  that's why I have you here.

I'm thinking of something more more long term.

I think what's really important  is making a plan, right?

If you if you want to do one thing today  to help your speaking in the next month,  

sit down and make a very simple  plan of how you're going to do that.

Think about how many days a  week you can study or practice.

Is it an hour each time or half an hour?

Which days and just and what time, I mean really  detail, just write down the day and the time.

This is what I'm going to do and go into  detail about what you're going to do.

So rather than saying I'll watch a YouTube video  is say I'm going to watch this YouTube video  

and I'm going to practice repeating or practice  shadowing and have that plan just for two weeks.

Just make a simple plan for two weeks.

And then you can review after two weeks.

Because I know what happens.

And this happens to me if I make  a very simple plan and think, OK,  

I'll decide what to do when it's time for class.

I sit down for my study time and I  think, right, what am I going to do?

And you start searching YouTube and then  20 minutes later you haven't started.

And, and so if you get prepared beforehand,  even half an hour, making your plan with detail,  

once you go into your plan and it's  time to study, study English, boom,  

you go straight in, make the use of  that time and, and it's much better.

I completely agree with that excellent advice.

And just to bring it full circle,  I'll bring back our gym analogy.

Because if you were to go to the  gym but you didn't have a plan,  

you walk in, there's all this equipment,  you'll probably waste so much time just  

trying to decide what to do, how long you  should do it, what weight you should use.

But if you know exactly what you're  going to do when you get there,  

it will save you time and  you'll get better results.

So I completely agree with that.

And I love how you you tied it back to the gym.

Well done.

Nice.

Somehow it just naturally came back, I felt.

Thank you so much for being here.

And everyone please go to Keith's channel.

It's an amazing resource to help you improve for  your IELTS and all areas of your English as well.

So thank you again so much  for being here today, Keith.

My pleasure.

Thank you for inviting me, Jennifer.

Thank you guys for watching.

Really do appreciate it and maybe  our paths will cross in the future.