If You DO THIS in 2025, You're FLUENT in English

Is it your goal to become  fluent in 2025 and do you  

want results as quickly and easily as possible?

I've interviewed experts from around the world  to help you become fluent fast, and in this  

English Fluency Master class, these experts  are going to share their best advice with you.

When I'm working with students,  

the number one concern that they have is  that they don't feel confident speaking.

They feel like they're being  judged by native speakers.

They're worried about their grammar  mistakes, they're worried that their  

accents are too thick, and all of this  prevents them from speaking confidently.

So what advice would you give to these students?

OK, well there's you mentioned  several things there.

First of all, thick accent.

As long as you are comprehensible,  your accent is fine.

We have to accept that.

Obviously, if we can get closer  to sort of native pronunciation,  

we have to want to, in a way, we want  to imitate the way the native speak.

But we have to realize, and I realize that I will  

never be mistaken for a native speaker  in the languages that I have learned.

So accept the fact that you have an accent.

Also accept the fact that you're going to forget.

I mean, we know if if we're if I'm in some  place and somebody shows up whom I know  

and but what's his name or her name?

The more pressure I put on myself to  try to remember that person's name,  

the more likely I am not to remember.

And later on when there's no pressure on me.

Oh yeah, that was George or Sally.

So obviously there is a  certain amount of pressure,  

tension when we speak because it's it's always  more comfortable to speak in your own language.

So you're speaking in another language,  there's a little more tension.

And so it's a little more  difficult to remember things.

We just have to accept that all of that is normal.

It's normal not to understand.

It's normal to forget.

And if we simply keep going,  we will gradually improve.

The more pressure we put on ourselves  or if we try to avoid speaking because  

we're afraid, then we aren't going to improve.

So I mean, it's easy to say, but I have  experienced it in many languages where  

I struggle and sometimes we think we  did more poorly than we in fact did  

and we just have to give ourselves credit.

Trust the brain.

The brain will gradually learn given enough  experience, and you just have to keep going.

So let me first tell you that  this is a very human being,  

a human thing to be scared of, you  know, getting out of your comfort zone.

When we when we get out of our  comfort zone, we're always scared.

That's the first thing.

So it's completely, completely normal  to be scared or slightly anxious about  

the mere fact of having to have a  conversation with a native speaker.

So that's that's the first  thing to take into account.

The second thing to take into account is  that I, I foresee like these three zones,  

you have the comfort zone at the beginning, right?

So that's where you stand where  you're like sitting in the corner.

You're learning vocabulary, but you don't want to  

venture out there and have, you  know, talk to talk to people.

Then you have out like there's another  layer or zone around that zone,  

which I call like it's called the Goldilocks zone.

So it's slightly challenging,  but it's not too challenging.

I'll give you a concrete example in a second.

And then you have the panic zone.

The panic zone is where you're completely out  

of your comfort zone so far that it's  you panic because it's too difficult.

An example.

So your comfort zone is, let's say whoever  is listening, if you're, you know, you're,  

you've been learning a language for a little  bit and or for a long time for that matter,  

English, and you still find it difficult.

You know, you've still tremble at the  idea of speaking to someone or you're  

interacting with someone, but you, you,  you, you know, you don't express yourself  

smoothly because your mind goes blank and  you think, Oh my God, they're judging me.

I'm making mistakes.

You think about Ram or all those  things that make it difficult.

Then think about this.

Your comfort zone is sitting  in front of a computer and  

making maybe lists of words or maybe  watching something passively, right?

So that is an excuse of, oh, I'm engaging with the  language, but I'm not actually talking to people.

Then you have the what I call the Goldilocks zone.

It's a good zone.

It's a good zone to be in.

And you tell yourself, OK, I'm scared.

Fine, normal, but I could have,  maybe I could hire a tutor,  

a very nice and friendly person with  whom I could have a conversation.

It's a protected environment because you're  paying, whether you're paying someone or you  

find someone you can have a conversation with,  maybe on Skype, there is no background noise.

That person knows that you're a learner  and then you can have a conversation.

You can prepare beforehand about  a topic you're interested in and  

you can have a meaningful conversation.

That's a Gray zone that you can get  in a Gray zone, but a good zone to be  

in so that you can actually step out  of your comfort zone progressively.

Yeah, it's a really good question and I think  

it's definitely something that  is not that easy to overcome.

But one thing that I will try to imagine is  that if this person that I'm talking to is  

also learning like a second language, For example,  if this person is learning my native tongue, which  

is native tongue, which is Mandarin, Mandarin,  would I care that this person make mistakes?

I probably wouldn't care that much.

And actually I think I would think  that this person like is very brave  

and then like he or she is willing to try  to actually speak such a difficult language.

So I think with this mindset, I will feel more  at ease when I am going to speak with people.

And when I actually make mistake, I would feel  like most of the people would just understand it.

And there are going to be some people  that who just wouldn't understand it  

and feel like how could you make such  a simple mistakes and things like that?

There are always going to be people like that.

But I would just ignore that kind of people and  like, basically think that for those kind of  

people, they just don't understand the difficulty  and challenge of learning a foreign language.

So yeah, that's basically how, like  the mindset that helps me to overcome  

this kind of fear of trying to, you know,  speak with someone in their native tongue.

Yeah, especially when I'm  still in the beginner stage.

I think when it comes to fear, I  mean, I don't know what you think,  

but I think a lot of native  speakers are not so judge mental.

They, they won't, they're very rarely going to  

correct your grammar because most native  speakers may not know how how to do that.

So they're probably not going  to correct your grammar.

They, they, you know, they won't correct  your accent or laugh at your accent.

I think by and large, most native  speakers are kind of open minded  

with that and they're not going  to have a problem with that.

I think where the problem comes is  where if because of your grammar  

mistakes or your accent or pronunciation,  communication breaks down and they don't  

understand what you're trying to say,  then yes, there's going to be a problem.

And they'll be like, oh, well,  I don't want to speak to them.

I can't communicate with them.

And so there is that, that problem  that if communication breaks down,  

but communication can break down  in different situations, right?

It can break down due to mistakes, but it can also  break down if you just go quiet or speak slowly.

You know, some students don't want to  make a mistake, so they go very slowly  

and they they do each word by word and  then communication breaks down because  

the the listener is not following what you're  saying or is getting bored and walks away.

So I think there's a balance between  the accuracy and the fluency.

You know, you, you, you want to, you don't want  to be too thinking too much about your mistakes.

Just try and communicate, just speak out, go with  the flow, but be aware that if you are making a  

lot of mistakes, you'll see it in the eyes of the  listener that the communication is broken down.

So you need that kind of balance of just speaking,  outgoing with the flow, but being aware you're not  

making too many mistakes grammatically,  vocabulary or pronunciation mistakes.

So that balance is is an important one.

It's really like a language learner  thing to even think that you're that,  

that someone's going to care  that you made a mistake, right?

Because the the first point  is you're just speaking.

It's just communication.

And then you have to consider how many native  

speakers that you meet have never  studied any other language before.

So they don't even know  what they're talking about.

So you you speak to them and they  might say, oh, you, what did you say?

Oh, I didn't understand.

They just don't have any experience  talking to foreign people and they  

don't have any experience with different accent.

If if a person from the other  side of the country came to that,  

they would hear that person  say, oh, you have an accent.

They would say the same thing to  a person who's a native speaker.

So a lot of times non-native students who are  learning English to come to United States,  

for example, they'll get discouraged,  upset, frustrated about about this that  

people might hear their accent and  and ask them to repeat something.

God forbid someone asked me to repeat something.

Native speakers ask other native  speakers to repeat stuff all the time.

It's it's not an issue.

But yeah, so I, so I think especially the  rules, when you, when, when you're really  

focused on rules and being correct, then  it can really hold you back because you're  

thinking about the speech and the language a  lot more than the people who you're talking to.

If you had to boil down the qualities  or personality traits of successful  

language learners, what would you say those are?

Well, obviously motivation is big.

The motivation, I would say attitude is big.

So motivation is one thing.

Confidence, you know, enjoying the language,  enjoying the language learning process,  

all of those things are part  of that positive attitude.

And I also think it's very  important not to be a perfectionist,  

very important to accept, you  know, fuzziness in certitude.

You know, you don't quite understand.

You keep forgetting the same words.

And all of that is fine, because you're enjoying  the process of discovering another language.

And you mentioned confidence.

I'm going to ask you a follow up because many of  

my students tell me that they lack  confidence when using their English.

So can you speak a little bit more  about the role that confidence has  

when learning and using a foreign language?

Confidence is huge, and that's why I put a great  amount of emphasis on listening and reading.

And you sometimes hear people say, well,  I can read, but I have trouble speaking.

But most of those people don't  realize just how much you need  

to read and listen like you have to read a book.

203 hundred pages, one book, several books, and  the brain starts to get used to the language.

And reading is so easy to do.

And when we read, it's almost as if  we're speaking because we are sort  

of subconsciously as vocalizing  as we read and also listening.

And so if you build up this degree  of confidence with the language,  

the brain is used to the language.

The brain has formed a model of the language.

When you go to speak, of course  you're going to struggle at first,  

but you will gradually improve because  you have all these words inside you.

So I think part of it is being better prepared.

And most people don't put the time  and effort into reading and listening.

They desperately try to remember some  grammar rules and they try to think  

of grammar rules while they're  speaking, which is hopeless.

And then they have to accept  that when they're speaking,  

they're actually practicing speaking  and they will gradually get better.

And while they're speaking, if they're speaking to  people that matter to them, they're getting very  

valuable input, which is also all part of training  the brain to be comfortable in the language.

They find the context and they find an objective.

So in my in my case, I've been kind  of blessed to be able to speak 5 or  

6 languages on a daily basis because  that's just the people in my company.

They speak them.

But looking back, my best periods of language  learning really helped what really happened  

when I had a context through  which to learn a language.

So if I had a girlfriend that spoke  the language or maybe flatmates or I  

was working in a company where  where the language was spoken.

And I think that that is by far the  best way to to be learning a language.

So, you know, having, having a context where you  don't actually have to make an effort and you're  

kind of confronted with the language,  whether you whether you like it or not.

And then the second thing is an objective.

So, so let's say I learned Russian to a reasonable  

intermediate degree before meeting  my wife, who is Russian speaking.

And then I put it to myself as an  objective to make my Russian really  

perfect so that I could speak with my in  laws, with her parents in a, you know,  

you know, in an unconstrained  sort of free, free flowing way.

And that was a fantastic,  fantastic source of motivation.

So different people will find different  sources of motivation either whether it's,  

you know, relationships or sports or business,  but it's really important to have an objective.

Now, one thing I hear from my students a lot is  that they've been learning for years and years,  

and they feel like they've gained a lot  of vocabulary, gained a lot of grammar.

But when they go to use it in a conversation,  

like we're having a conversation  right now, their mind goes blank.

They forget all their words, they're shy, they're  nervous, and they're not able to communicate.

Where is it right now?

You are communicating very successfully.

So did you struggle with that?

How did you overcome that?

And how would you recommend that my students who  

are experienced and saying that  issue can overcome that as well?

Well, there are two ways.

Like there's a passive vocabulary  and there's an active vocabulary.

Well, in terms of active vocabulary, I learned  vocab, as I had mentioned, by jotting down a  

lot of beautiful expressions and putting on  my wall and deliberately practicing them.

What I mean by that, I would sit in front  of the mirror and I would take expression.

Let's say people have  different likes and dislikes.

That's one the expression.

Yeah.

I would flexibly use it.

Like people have different likes and  dislikes when it comes to reading books.

Yeah, some people like different types of genres,  while others like different types of genres.

So by using great language chunks  and deliberately practicing them  

in front of the mirror, I was  able to actively use my vocab.

And it's OK.

It's OK to forget vocab.

It's OK.

It's all about the process.

And it also comes down to confidence.

Look, people should not be like, people should not  

be very shy in front of people because  everybody's going through something.

Everybody's learning this language.

How can you be shy when learning language?

But it's very bad.

So you have to first of all, tell yourself,  hey, everybody's going through, it's OK.

It's OK to make mistakes, It's OK to make.

It's OK to forget vodka.

And it's OK to feel embarrassed from time to time.

And in this way, you build confidence.

That's what I used to do.

I went through a lot.

It's not OK.

It's it's not easy to wake up at the  same time, go to bed at the same time.

It was not easy to study for 6 to 12 hours a day.

It was not easy to feel embarrassed  when I was giving lectures.

It was not easy.

But by learning from my mistakes, I  learned and that and I am still learning.

I sometimes cannot use vodka, but that's OK.

It's as I had mentioned, it's a lifelong learning.

So yeah.

I would say, I think most of the time  we are really afraid of making mistakes.

And it is like mainly because like  how we have been taught in school,  

I guess because we are asked to  take a lot of exams and maybe you  

have to say something in front of a lot  of people, like in front of a classmates.

And when you say something wrong,  your teacher will try to correct you.

I mean in, I think with a good intention to start  with, but most of the time it will kind of scare  

you and then you will have this like trauma  that you don't want to experience this again.

So I would say like most of the  time when we like couldn't really  

say something even though we want to, it's  because we are afraid of making mistakes.

So like later I also experienced that a lot when  I'm like in the beginner stage of the language.

So I actually like just like push myself and  even like give myself a rule that you know,  

like today I'm here to make mistakes.

If I do not make at least one mistake  here like tonight in this like session,  

then I'm not reaching my goal.

So I'm not like my goal is never like  I couldn't make any mistakes tonight.

I have to make perfect sentences all the time.

It's never like that.

It's always like I need to make at least  one mistake today and that's the end.

Like that.

That's the goal of like my  language learning that day.

So yeah, I use that kind of like mindset  to push myself to make as many mistakes  

as possible because this is how you can actually  say something when your practice is speaking with  

others because it's just so difficult, especially  when you are talking with a native speaker.

They speak really fast and  you really don't have time.

It's not like when you write or when you listen,  you have more time to think through it and then to  

check whether like you understand it or not  or like your grammar and things like that.

Like when it's like very fast, then you have to  just make mistakes to make yourself to to improve.

Yeah.

That's very powerful.

I'm here to make mistakes.

I'm here to make mistakes.

I think everyone should write that  down, remember it, say it every day,  

not just with languages, with anything in  life, anything that you're trying to do.

Because if you're not making mistakes like you  said, you're probably not trying very hard.

You're probably not pushing  yourself That's very powerful.

I'm here to make mistakes.

Wow.

Thank you for sharing that you're.

Welcome.

Now to answer your question, we're not  going to talk delve into neuroscience,  

although I'm really passionate  about how the brain works.

And if you understand how the brain works, it  gives you an incredible insight into why we have  

these problems when speaking a foreign language or  even are an own native language for that matter.

But to make it simple, this is  the reason why all this works.

All this happens.

Sorry, in our mind, we process language learning  when we still do not speak a language well.

So we're not talking about our native  language, we're talking about foreign language.

We use what is called what this part of the  brain, which is called prefrontal cortex.

This is our like, this is how we  think consciously, how we plan things,  

when we try to retrieve words, when we try  to think about grammar, etcetera, etcetera.

Then we have another part of the brain  which is called the limbic system.

That has to do with, let's say, emotions.

This is an, an oversimplification  of how this works, but just to,  

to show you a metaphor of how like there you  have two competing, let's say parts of the brain.

One is trying to process, to think about words,  to arrange them together, to think about grammar.

And the other part, which is the  emotional part, fights against this part.

So if you're tense and subconsciously we  walk into a conversation, whether it's  

with a tutor or with people outside, there's  a level of tension that unfortunately where  

the amygdala is involved in not only the  amygdala that keeps this part of the brain,  

let's say, keeps it from communicating  well with other parts of the brain.

So imagine that this part of the  brain wants to grab a word somewhere,  

fetch a word with a mechanical arm, but the  other part just keeps it from doing that.

If you're stressed, if you're anxious,  if you walk into any conversation with  

the idea that you're going to be  judged and everything, you know,  

all the negative things that you think concerning  a conversation, this is bound to happen.

This has happened to me a  number of times recently.

Just to give you a very concrete example,  I've been learning Serbian for two years.

I had a conversation with my colleague  who's American, Serbian, American,  

and I've been learning the language for two years.

I understand it pretty well.

We recorded a conversation for YouTube.

I could not say the simplest things  like he asked me, Are you ready?

I was like, I couldn't even say yes, I am in  Serbian and I realized how is that possible?

And because the knowledge  is there, but it's blocked.

So it's something that happens all the time.

Our mind goes blank because we are anxious and  we are in this mode, in this very negative mode.

My suggestion is once again, what  I said before is that to establish  

if you're anxious about having a  conversation with a native speaker,  

find one person, a friendly person, not  necessarily competent, a friendly person.

You are really excited, you  know, you, you think, oh,  

I'm going to talk to Jennifer or Luca  or Mark about whatever excites you.

And when that happens, when you focus more on the  communication than the performance, your level of  

stress is going to go down and, and then your mind  will go blank because it's, this is inevitable.

It's a background noise that  you're not going to limit it,  

but it's going to happen less and less  when you're talking with that person.

My first piece of advice would be to relax.

So of course it's going to happen and not  only with language learning or speaking a  

language that you don't speak so well,  but also speaking your own language.

So you and I speak English and  all of a sudden somebody asks  

us to give a presentation in front of 5000 people.

We are starting to forget our  words and become anxious and so on.

So it's just, it's something  that happens to to everybody.

The second thing would be you  already speak the language.

So it's just a matter of, of level  fluency, number of errors and so on.

So it's a continuum.

So it's not a, it's not a, it's, there's no,  there's no switch that happens between I cannot  

speak the language, I'm not confident  and I can speak the language and I can,  

I can deliver a, you know,  Physiology presentation.

So it's a continuum.

And it's important to find that quick, not  quick wins, but, but wins along the way.

So if you are just starting  to learn the language to maybe  

understanding about 3 minute episode of  of something on YouTube would be great.

And then maybe later on having  a phone call in the language,  

maybe maybe the next step and  so on and so on and so on.

So having these milestones I think really helps  because that's why you convince yourself also  

that you are progressing irrespective  of how it might look at certain times.

You have to remember, first of all,  very often you hear people talk about,  

you know, I'm going to master the basics.

We forget even the most basic words,  we forget the most basic structures.

We forget things that we used to  be able to do and now we can't do.

All of a sudden we may be  able to do it the next time.

So the first thing is to accept that that is  

absolutely normal and it's part  of the process of communicating.

But gradually, even the process  of forgetting and relearning is  

solidifying the, that capability in your brain  that the, you know, research into the brain.

We need to see something, notice  something, forget it for a while,  

go back to it, forget it again, go back to it.

And slowly that is how we accumulate  words that we can comfortably use.

So forgetting is part of the process and  shouldn't make us feel uncomfortable.

Good.

I forgot.

Good.

And I relearn it, and maybe I forget it again.

Good.

And then I relearn it and gradually we improve.

That's an amazing attitude to have by  forgetting you are in fact learning.

Not only is it normal to forget  things, but it's beneficial.

So changing your attitude around it.

I hope all my students remember that lesson.

What a powerful lesson.

Let's make that practical.

So for English, what would be a phrase that that  you have in your vocabulary that you memorize,  

that you can use when you feel  stuck or when your mind goes blank?

So for example, if I'm like going  to say something like usually if  

it's someone that I've never met before,  and usually that's going to be the case.

And then it's about maybe I would just say like  where I'm from and what I'm doing right now.

And I would just like imagine people  will start be very curious about,  

for example, I'm a YouTube right now.

So they will be thinking, wow, So what do you do?

And then I will started to just like memorize  phrases such as, oh, I create videos about  

the topics of travels and language learning  and self development and things like that.

So I think these subjects and topics  like we could imagine in advance,  

like what would people be curious  about and prepare them in advance  

and for other things like for example, like  other group of a group of people are talking  

and like you are just maybe just listening  and you're trying to agree with them.

So I think I find phrases  such as, yeah, I think so too.

Yeah, that's so cool.

Wow, that's amazing.

Things like that to be very useful  because sometimes even if I don't  

really understand 100% what people  are saying, like in the in the group,  

I can still say that sentences and usually  it's not going to be a weird sentences that  

people will find out that you actually don't  really know what they are talking about.

So I use this kind of techniques to get  by like my speaking session with others.

How would you start that?

If a student came to you and said a  language learner came to you and said,  

I memorize 10, let's just say 10 phrasal verbs.

I watch a video, I learn them, and then a  few days later I can't remember any of them.

How would you start to help that person  to retain to keep that information?

Yeah.

So, you know, people have different  study techniques, but you know,  

study techniques doesn't necessarily mean  that you're employing memory techniques.

And, and really the problem that most people  have when they sit down to memorize something  

is they don't have a real process other than  possibly some kind of rote repetition thing,  

which can work with a lot of dedicated repetition.

That's that is proven to work.

But when you talk about language where you have  so many things that need to be in your head to  

be able to speak to a certain degree of fluency,  you know, you need to know thousands of words,  

cases and, and, and conjugations and  idioms and all that sort of stuff.

It's, it's not a, it's not realistic  to necessarily be able to review it  

to the extent that repetition  would just suffice, you know,  

so memory techniques need to jump  in there and kind of carry the load.

So the first thing that people need to  understand is you need a way of organizing  

the information that you're putting in your  head and making it relatable to things that  

you already know that you can visualize in your  mind and think in and see in terms of pictures.

Rather than these abstract things, which with a  foreign language, it's generally speaking mostly  

abstracts because it's in another language, you  know, your native language, and this is not that.

So when you look at this word that you're trying  to learn, let's say, it just looks like gibberish.

It's meaningless.

So the first step to memorizing anything,  honestly, is to take that thing and to try to  

convert it into some kind of mental picture that  makes sense to you, that lights up your interest.

And then the next step is to kind of like,  

how do I store it in my mind in a way  that it's easier to retrieve later?

There's different approaches to do  that, but that's generally the idea.

The last step is the review.

You know that you can't get around the review.

Unfortunately, we, our, our brains are  designed to forget things over time,  

but it remembers the things that  we frequent a lot in our heads.

That shouldn't make sense, right?

But you know, again, it's, it's, it's  with memory techniques, you can kind of  

reduce the amount of review that needs  to be done and how often because it's,  

it's such a lot more sticky,  stickier inside the mind.

Great point.

So trying to think of this myself,  Let's say I'm trying to learn the word.

There's a lamp right in front of me,  so I'll just use that as an example.

So I'm trying to learn the word  lamp in a foreign language.

So I see a picture of of a lamp in my head.

Is that do I have that right so far?

Yeah, that's part of it.

So obviously there's the word  

that you will either hear or see if  you're reading it in this other language.

So I don't know is there a?

Is there a language for as  an example you wanna use?

Yeah, Spanish.

I know a little bit of Spanish and it's  something that I'm casually learning.

Many words I do not know, lots that I  don't remember when I need them as well.

I don't know what the word is  for lamp in Spanish to you.

Nor do I all right.

I'm going to look it up and  we're going to do it right now.

Okay, okay, sounds good.

I'm sure all the Spanish speakers are laughing  at me because they know I just spent six months  

in a Spanish speaking country and I  don't even know the word for lamp.

But lamp is.

I think that's kind of a specific.

Like.

Light is different, you know.

True, That's a good point.

That's a good point.

So it's Lampara.

Lampara.

Maybe Lampara?

OK.

Maybe there's different Spanish  speaking countries say different things,  

but let's say that's the word we're learning.

OK, that's maybe not the best example  actually because it has the word lamp in it.

But in general, you know, you would look  at this word and think of what it reminds  

you of in terms of sound or even what the  letters look like together, and come up  

with a picture for that relating it to what it  actually means, which in this case is a lamp.

So in this specific specific example,  Lampada again has the word lamp in it.

So that probably would give you a clue if  you saw the word Lampada that it is a lamp.

The other way going the other direction is,  

you know, the way I just asked you,  how do you say lamp in Spanish?

You want to say lamp, you know, and you don't  know you'd have to remember Lampada, right?

So maybe the tricky part here  is the ending, Ada right.

So you'd come up with an image for that and kind  

of weave it into a picture that  you have of a lamp in your mind.

So Ada, you know, what does that mean to you?

It's it's kind of a meaningless thing,  

but you can come up with something that  it kind of sounds like or reminds you of,  

like maybe it's an arrow, English ARA  arrow, arrow or arrow up to you, right.

And then with that, let's say it's arrow.

It's not the same, but it's close enough  to give you a, a cue to know what it is.

So my lamps in my head when  I'm thinking in Spanish would  

have an arrow shot through it, right?

OK, so now I have a cue when  I think, OK, lamp Spanish.

Oh, there's an arrow through it.

OK, Lampada, lamp arrow Lampada.

Right.

And that's kind of the idea here is we're  kind of making little tricks here for  

remembering this these meaningless things  via the things that are meaningful to us.

A good example.

Can I give you another example?

Absolutely.

I'd love 1.

Yeah.

So in French, for example, we have for dog.

Is Chien OK?

Doesn't sound like dog in this case.

It's not doggy doggara, right?

So 2 very different words meaning the same thing.

So with the French word chien,  OK, if you ever were to read it,  

it kind of reads like chain a little bit.

It's CHIEN or feminine.

It's it's a bit different, but chien OK.

So I might look at that word and say,  

OK, I'm going to picture a chain  attached to a dog in this case, right?

Which would kind of make sense.

You know, a dog is on a chain,  attaches like a ferocious dog.

And the more you make these images in your  mind come alive, you know, like, picture this  

rabid dog with sharp teeth, like trying to kill  you, but he's thankfully attached to this chain.

Maybe the chain even breaks, right?

And now you're terrified for your life.

Or maybe it's funny because it's a tiny little  dog, and it's strapped to this massive chain.

Like, why would it even need that?

You know, you can make kind of silly images.

The next time I see that word.

Yeah, I'll think chain.

I'll think dog.

You know, Now this approach is  is only just a crutch, right?

To get you to a point where ultimately at  some point you've practiced this so much  

through review and speaking and reading whatever,  that this chain link won't be necessary anymore.

You'll just know chain or shaft is dog.

So why don't you tell my students how you achieved  

such a high level of fluency  in a short period of time?

Did you have a secret process you  followed or what was your approach?

What was your methodology to get these results?

Well, first of all, before embarking  on this beautiful journey, I started  

eliminating all unnecessary distractions I had.

First of all, social media.

I've only started using social  media for educational purposes.

You know, like TikTok, not going to happen.

YouTube, OK, let's use that  for educational purposes,  

like watching Youtubers, like you're  watching professional teachers and so forth.

That's what I did.

And also I started eliminating  like my toxic environment.

At that time, I used to have a toxic environment.

I start, I told myself if  I wanted to improve myself,  

why not eliminate and eradicate  all unnecessary distractions?

So that's what I did.

After that, I also created a study area which  was like putting over like like vibrant sticky  

notes on my walls and jotting down beautiful  expressions idiomatically in Quech phrasal verbs.

I've sent you some photos.

You could show them like to students.

You believe it or not.

It helped me to study for 6 to 12 hours a day.

I was like I became obsessed with the process.

I had a study table, I had a study bedroom and I  would like study continuously every single day.

I spiced it up.

I did not I I was not in a hurry  to improve my language skills,  

but instead I enjoyed the process.

I would visualize and picture my future.

I would think about how many opportunities  I would have if I reached this level.

OK, so let's study.

So this is what really helped me to  study not only for many, many hours,  

but also to increase the quality of my  language acquisition, I would even say.

So how did you personally  improve your speaking skills?

I feel like I'm sure you said this in your  videos once, but you know how when you're  

writing it down or like you're reading, it's  like no one's actually listening to you say it.

So you're a little more  confident in like doing it right.

But when you try to say it in front of and  someone, especially the native speaker,  

you suddenly just feel anxious and  you start and your mind just goes,  

what if I make mistakes or  like what if I mess this up?

That's something like that.

I'll be honest, that happened to me  like it used to when I was younger,  

but now growing up, like I'm, I've  been a lot more confident with this.

I feel like that that's I'm more  nervous if I speak my native language.

Those are the thoughts that  run through my mind speaking  

my native language than they do speaking English.

So I think one thing is just don't  let yourself become anxious or like,  

don't fear making mistakes because everyone makes  mistakes for all the human beings that happens.

Just don't be worried about like, if I  mess this up, is someone going to judge me?

If they do, I say let them.

That's that's what people are going to do.

So don't worry about people's opinions.

If you're doing it, you're  doing great for yourself.

You should be doing it for yourself.

So like you don't have to worry about that.

If like I think a tip to  improve your speaking skills,  

something that definitely worked  for me is speak to yourself.

It doesn't even have to be like formally, you  don't have to be sitting in front of a mirrors.

One thing, I know this is more of a habit of mine  at this point, but I'd be like reading a book.

I'll be watching a movie or like ATV show  and something's going to happen and I'm  

going to stick there for 5 minutes rambling to  myself on and on and on about the situation.

I could be alone in the room or in  the house and I'll still keep going.

So it's for me, it's become more of a habit.

I can't stop myself from it.

So I do definitely think don't  be nervous about doing that.

It's like normal.

I definitely help me.

So just like try speaking to yourself first.

Don't just don't be afraid of making mistakes.

It happens just like relax yourself, just speak.

It doesn't matter if you miss, make mistakes.

It's completely fine if you want to.

Like you can always, like I said, you can.

If you're like preparing for something,  like you're preparing for a speech or  

like an interview, you can always  stand in front of the mirror.

Try to practice it or like you can, it can  eventually build into a habit like it did for me.

But as you're reading, as  you're listening, you just,  

you should just let yourself express your  opinions and ideas, even if it's just you.

You don't have to have someone there you to  speak to, you can always speak to yourself.

I'm so glad you said that.

And that's definitely advice  I share with all my students.

And that is what I do is well,  I speak to myself all the time.

It's a great way to prepare.

It's a great way to practice.

And when I was learning foreign languages,  I, I always spoke to myself in that foreign  

language because I didn't have access to other  people, but I always had access to myself.

So it's just an easy, easy thing to do.

And I'm glad you do that, and I'm  glad you recommend it as well.

Basically, first of all, Jennifer, I, you know,  

pointed out the Gray areas in my language  on which I had to were, you know, work upon.

And then I started consulting quality  material for improving, you know,  

my language skills, for improving my grammar.

I started reading newspapers.

I started, you know, listening to podcasts.

And most importantly, I want to  mention here two things which I  

did which really helped me in  improving my language skills.

And number one is diary writing.

I used to write diary a lot,  you know, at the end of the day,  

I would sit down and write about my daily routine.

How did my day went on, you know.

So it helped me in refining my language skills.

Point number one.

Second, I started speaking with  my fellows, with my teachers.

You know, students feel very  much hesitant or they don't  

feel at ease while speaking with their fellows.

But in my case, you know, I thought,  let people say what they want because,  

you know, I, as I mentioned that  students are not motivated to speak.

You know, if people from my  country are listening to this,  

I want to tell them we should motivate students.

So when they are not motivated to speak,  they don't really improve themselves.

So what I did did was I started speaking with  my fellows at the university, with my teachers.

So it provided me confidence to refine  my language skills more and more.

And that is the way I, you know, get a lot  of confidence regarding my English language.

Yeah.

Excellent points and I've  recommended this to all my students.

You've probably heard me say you  should keep a journal, diary journal.

They're the same thing.

Keep a journal, Write about your daily routine,  summarize your day, which is exactly what you did.

And also you said you just practiced speaking  with people who were available to you.

Now, what if there's a student watching  right now and they say, but Zeeshawn.

But Jennifer, I don't have anyone available to me.

I work from home.

I live in a non-english speaking country.

There is nobody I can speak to.

What advice would you give to that student?

I think that the more methods  and technologies have created,  

you know, a lot of space for such people, you  know, who are working from home, you know,  

you can book a tutor online nowadays and  you can have a conversation with him,  

You can select A topic of mutual interest and  then you guys can go on speaking about it.

And if you're working from home, of  course, you have your family members,  

your siblings, brothers, sisters and all those,  you should start speaking in English with them.

So in that way you would be refining not  only your language and communication skills,  

but they will also be getting benefit out of it.

You know, I mean, nowadays I think it's  not an excuse if I'm allowed to see.

So let's go back to when you were in acting  school because this is so interesting to me.

So you're in acting school with  native English speakers as well.

Can you tell me what was your experience  trying to improve your pronunciation or  

reduce your accent compared to a  native speaker trying to do that?

I just imagine if I had to learn to speak  with a Texas accent or a British accent,  

I think that would be very difficult for me.

So how do you think that that experience was  

different for you and native speakers  you were doing this training with?

That's a great question.

I think.

That first of all, I always felt a little  inferior because it was like always, oh,  

they, it's so easy for them, right?

It wasn't just, you know, the exercises and the  sentences that we had to read, some of them were  

so complicated to me also in a semantic level,  like I didn't understand what it meant because it  

was like all these old school of vocabulary and  you know, they kind of like they just read it.

And I had to read it before everyone else like 10  times in my head to be able to say it confidently.

And even then I wasn't confident.

So I felt like I had to catch up to  even be close to where they were at.

At the same time, I feel like that gave me  an incentive and motivation to do this work.

And I worked a lot harder than  everyone else, which, you know,  

of course benefited me because I developed this.

I, I became a very diligent student.

I did the work.

It impacted not just my, my, my pronunciation,  

but also my self esteem and how I  perceived myself as as a learner.

You know, because I did the work, I showed up,  

I was consistent because I  wanted to catch up with them.

And I think that because of that,  my improvement was, was pretty fast.

And I also studied privately with one, with two  of my teachers so that I could between the first  

year and the second year, I took a lot of private  classes so that I would, you know, at least have  

the same ability to have conversational  English and, and I think that worked.

Has that work has paid off?

The only thing that I think  was a huge struggle was how  

the language was not immediate to me, right?

Like especially when we had to improvise  or when we had to speak in class about,  

you know, about how we feel and things like that.

Like it was very easy for them to communicate  and for me, the language was not that available.

I was self-conscious about how it sounded.

I did all this pronunciation work.

So I was always like in my head,  listening to myself from the outside.

And I felt like I wasn't fully expressive.

I wasn't able to express myself  as fully as my colleagues.

So I think that was also a  challenge that I had to face.

And I think that's the thing, like non-native  speakers, they in many situations at work, you  

know, when writing emails in a global, in global  companies, in acting schools, at universities,  

they probably need to work harder than their  native peers if the environment is in English.

But it's not necessarily a bad thing.

But we need to kind of like, understand  how to work with those thoughts and make  

sure that we don't see ourselves  as victims, but only, as, you know,  

people with the power to do those  things that we want and to change.

Now, what would you say to that student who  wants to sound more advanced in English,  

but their fluency isn't there yet?

What what should they do?

Just focusing on the words that they now know?

Or should they focus on trying to add more words?

What strategies do you have for that student?

It has to be both of those.

It, I think it has to be in, in conversations,  

focus on the fluency, focus on  using the words that you know.

And because if you're using language  you're comfortable with, you're going  

to feel more confident and you're going to  be speaking more fluently in the background.

Of course, you always need  to be studying and learning,  

expanding your vocabulary, grammar  that you use up to a higher level.

So you always want to be curious, to learn new  language and to grow the level that you're at.

So you need both of those activities.

And I kind of make it sound like  they're two separate activities.

And by and large, they may be,  but they may be intermingled.

You know, you may be having  a conversation with someone  

and they use an expression you've never heard.

And you say, well, that's interesting.

And then at the end of the conversation,  

you just make a note and say,  oh, I must, I must remember that.

It's really good.

So they may be intermingled, but I  think you need to do both both things.

Yeah, that's great advice.

And in reality, that sounds like how we would  learn basically anything or improve any skill.

Because if you're going to the gym, you focus  on the exercises, you know, but every day you  

might try to push yourself a little bit more,  run a little longer or lift heavier weights.

And it's just always a a gradual process and,  

and basically everything that  we do in improving, yeah.

Oh, absolutely.

I love the comparison to the gym.

I think a lot of the English workout  practice is like being at a gym, right?

Repetitions and repetitions.

But then you increase the weight.

You're increasing the complexity of the  vocabulary maybe, but not too much step by step.

Are you done learning?

Do you still sit down and  formally learn the language,  

or do you feel you've achieved the result  that you want with your English skills?

No, I don't think I'm not  going to say I'm done learning.

I don't ever want to be like done with it  because I think this I will definitely say  

there's a difference between when you  have to learn something like you don't  

want to and there's something you want to  learn something want to do for yourself.

So that's definitely like me and English,  like if I I'd say if it was like something  

like if it was a school subject, maybe  a subject I didn't necessarily like,  

I definitely would be like, OK, I'm done  learning this, that this is all I ever need.

I'm done.

But I this is something I'm  not going to be done with.

I'm definitely going to continue.

I still like I said, I never  actually formally tried to learn it.

I just a more off, you know, I went with it.

So I definitely I when I say  I'm more, I'm not done learning.

It's in a sense that I still like to read.

I still like to watch movies or shows in it.

Sometimes I like open up a  dictionary and look for words.

Sometimes I like like to search up  synonyms of words I feel like I use a lot.

So I'll try to like search up synonyms,  

try to replace the words with  something a little different.

It always helps like vocabulary  and pronunciation too.

And write in speech.

I feel like it just helps a lot.

So yeah, I don't think I'm done.

Good answer because we are all lifelong learners,  

we should never stop learning so I'm  glad you're committed to keep improving.

Keep learning.

And I asked you that just because a lot of  students, they, they really want to know,  

OK, when is that timeline in the future that I  will be fluent and therefore done with English.

That's seems to be what they have.

There's going to be some date in  the future, maybe three months,  

six months, one year where they're  done with English, they're fluent,  

they've achieved the result,  they can move on with their life.

But I still learn new words, new ways to  communicate, better ways to share my ideas.

And I'm a native speaker, so I'm glad you're  committed to that lifelong learning as well.

Excellent.

There's just like you're never,  you can never be done with it.

If you, if you think you're done,  well, you're actually done for.

Like that's it.

You're gonna forget what you learned like  six months later, that's just over for you.

All that work just goes to waste.

What a clever thing to say.

If you think you're done, you're done for.

You're done for.

In English, to be done for means  like you're finished over for longer,  

you're not successful anymore, you're  out of the game, you're done for.

So that's a very clever phrasing.

I love that.

If my students were to only do one thing this week  

to help them improve their fluency  in English, what should they do?

I would say put in the time, which in most  cases is going to mean input activities,  

because that's easy to organize.

You know, I carry my iPhone with me.

I, I use link.

I've got my lessons there.

I can listen to them.

I have a playlist.

If I'm sitting in the doctor's office,  I can look up words and read something.

So I'm, I'm engaging with  the language in that way.

So wherever you have an opportunity input.

However, when you have an  opportunity the output to speak,  

absolutely take advantage of it and don't worry  about how you do and trust your instincts.

Come out with whatever you got.

That's what you have.

Let it come out, interact with people, you'll  get some feedback and you just keep going.

So input activities wherever you  have the opportunity and output  

activities wherever you have the opportunity.

I would definitely recommend doing shadow in  

practice because I really  like this practice myself.

For those who don't know what shadow in practice  is basically like, to put it very simple,  

is that you pick like either an article with  an audio audio version of it or like a video.

I it would be easier that with a topic that really  interested you and then like also with subtitles.

And then you just like follow along with it.

You can pause it, pause it, and  then just like repeat after it.

And then you just do it again and again and again.

And I really like to do this practice because I  

think it's a great way to  practice my pronunciation.

And also it really helps me to be more  confident with myself, especially when  

it comes to speaking because I think the more  you to speak and then the more you are used  

to pronouncing like this language English, then  it's easier for you like when you actually meet  

someone in real life to open your mouth because  you will no longer feel like it's that scary.

And then you will realize that  your pronunciation is actually  

not that bad after you practice  this like shadowing practice.

So I really like this practice myself and  I would really recommend it to everyone.

I would say to focus on the joy of  actually whatever they're doing,  

whether they're speaking, whether  we're writing, whether we're reading,  

whether they're listening, whether they're  watching a YouTube video like this one.

To have joy to, to think about  the joy of learning instead of  

I have to do this because I have to learn.

It's more like I want to do this.

I think that once again, yes,  techniques and strategies,  

they're important, but this mindset  shift that you need to have in order  

to take things further is the one of the  most powerful things and factors when it  

comes to success in learning English  or any other language for that matter.

Listening and speaking are connected.

They are both connected.

The more you listen to something  the better you get that speaking,  

but it doesn't mean the fact  that you shouldn't speak.

You have to speak and I'm 100% sure  that student has time on the way.

You could talk to yourself.

If you are feeling embarrassed, just  put on your earphones and start talking  

so that people know you're talking with somebody.

Yes, before going to bed, talk to yourself.

But what I mostly recommend  is listening to something  

that you actually, you are actually interested in.

As I had mentioned, listening,  speaking are connected.

I used to watch movies, I used to watch TV  series like Friends, yeah, like 10 seasons.

I used to watch Friends like for hours and hours.

And I, I, I, I was even like, I even  forgot the time was flying, you know?

So I watch things based on my curiosity.

So once again, listening and speaking  are connected with each other.

They are not so academic.

You don't have to study a lot of grammar.

You don't have to sit down and do a lot of tests.

The the more you listen to something, the better.

You get that speaking, but also talk to yourself.

Well, one thing don't just like stop  because I don't want anyone to think,  

OK, when am I like at this age, at this point  in life, when am I ever going to need it again?

So like don't just stop learning.

And it's definitely like there's  a lot of different ways to learn.

Some people definitely try to learn from textbook.

I remember reading this book  called Effortless English.

It's definitely had like  a few things I agree with.

So I won't, I will say like you can always  like try to study grammar or read textbooks,  

but like don't try to just come completely indulge  yourself in like textbook English and grammar.

You should like, like I said, I learned  from like just reading and like listening.

So I will say also, sometimes  textbook English just might  

not be exactly what you want to learn from.

Try to do things that interest you.

Like there's a topic that is a  specific topic that interests you.

Like you're into music or you're into  news, you're into a specific genre.

You can always continue that, but in  the language you're trying to learn.

And also like I, I definitely  know the world we live in.

People are often like, they're going  to be judgmental of a lot of things.

They're going to be like, OK, like, why do  you need this and why do you need to do that?

And that's something that really annoys me.

So just don't listen to them.

Just try to just do what you want there.

You're never too old to like learn  something new or to try something new.

You're never too old to like do something.

I know something like this might seem a little  off topic, but you know how people say okay,  

Barbies are for little girls that I, I'm 14  and I still, I rewatch, I watch Barbie movies.

I, I will still godly have a  whole collection of Barbies.

So like, you're never too old for anything.

Do what you want, let people say what they want.

It doesn't matter.

You can like listen to them and  then forget they ever said anything.

It's not their business, it's your life.

You do what you want.

Talk to somebody, have a conversation in English.

Just maybe you studied and maybe you went to  a class at a university or maybe you maybe for  

work there was something you had to do that  was in English and maybe you read an e-mail.

Whatever you had to do, just just practice  getting the words out of your out of your mouth.

You just have to do it enough times  for it to become more automatic.

So you know, if you want  to get strong, do push ups.

So do some push ups this week.

I think what's really important  is making a plan, right?

If you if you want to do one thing today  to help your speaking in the next month,  

sit down and make a very simple  plan of how you're going to do that.

Think about how many days a  week you can study or practice.

Is it an hour each time or half an hour?

Which days and just and what time?

I mean really detail, just  write down the day and the time.

This is what I'm going to do and go into  detail about what you're going to do.

So rather than saying I'll watch a YouTube video  and say I'm going to watch this YouTube video  

and I'm going to practice repeating or practice  shadowing and have that plan just for two weeks.

Just make a simple plan for two weeks.

And then you can review after two weeks.

Because I know what happens.

And this happens to me if I make  a very simple plan and think, OK,  

I'll decide what to do when it's time for class.

I sit down for my study time and I  think, right, what am I going to do?

And you start searching YouTube and then  20 minutes later you haven't started.

And and so if you get prepared beforehand,  even half an hour making your plan with detail.

Once you go into your plan and it's time to  study, study English, boom, you go straight in.

Make the use of that time  and and it's much better.

I would choose.

I would spend the week just trying to  figure out what they would want to focus  

on and practice and then put everything  on the side and then say to themselves,  

OK, for the next two weeks, 3 weeks, 4  weeks, I'm going to focus on the R I'm  

going to focus on and choose a sound like I  think that that if you're just starting out,  

sounds are pretty are are are a good place to  start because intonation could be more vague.

And if you decide to do it, then create  the like, find the resources for yourself.

You know the right videos teaching you that and  and practice the sound with lots of repetition.

OK, so identify the sound.

I know you said one thing, but it's kind of  like identify the sound and then practice it.

Don't expect yourself to use  it, just probably if it's the R,  

learn how to make it and then just  practice a lot of words with the R sound.

Now when we have ChatGPT and all these  AI tools, it's so easy to generate lists  

of words, let's say with the R sound,  specifically with the R, it's easier.

With others, it's not so much.

So that's it.

I think I and I also think it's a lot of fun.

I'm biased a little bit, but I  do think pronunciation work can  

be fun if you have the right mindset and attitude.

Definitely find the context  for for their English learning.

So when you have a context, whether it's a  pen pal, whether it's a conversation partner,  

whether it's some shows you watch and so  on, everything just becomes so much easier.

It becomes, it becomes a game  as opposed to an obligation.

So finding the context for their  English learning super important.

I think that I should lay a  lot of emphasis upon writing  

because nobody's talking about writing out there.

You know, we are listening to podcasts,  

we are listening to audio books  and doing all sorts of things.

But I think it's writing.

Writing is, you know, as I mentioned,  is diminishing from our society where I,  

I don't think that we write too much nowadays.

So I I would suggest students to incorporate  this habit of writing into their daily lives.

At the end of the day, just sit down with  a pen and paper and try to write about  

your daily routine, How, how, how did your day  went on, your experiences and all those things.

It will not only help you in improving  your communication skills, but it will  

also provide you with an opportunity  to do some reflection about their day.

So I think you know it would help  you in both these both these ways.

Think of everything you've  learned from these experts.

Do you want me to keep interviewing more  experts to bring you tips and advice?

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