The TRUTH About How We TALK And How We Get HEARD ✊ With Samara Bay

33,723 views ・ 2020-06-09

Accent's Way English with Hadar


Please double-click on the English subtitles below to play the video.

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Hey everyone. I have a very exciting episode for you today because we have a very
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special guest. And that guest is Samara Bay. Samara is a Hollywood dialect coach. Now I
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don't want to drop any names, but she did coach on the set of 'Wonder Woman 2', and
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worked with Gal Gadot. Just saying. She's also a voice coach and she's the host
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of the podcast 'Permission to Speak', which I am obsessed with. This is actually how I
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got to know Samara, I'm a huge fan of the show. And I actually contacted her and she
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was more than happy to come and speak to us. So in this episode, we talk about pretty much
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everything: about accents, and dialects, and the voice, and what it means to be a native
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speaker and a non-native speaker. And she also shared with us a pretty cool method to
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learn how to pronounce the English vowels. So you better stick around. I am so honored
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to have her here. Let's welcome Samara Bay.
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Hi, Samara. <Both laughing>
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Samara: Hi, Hadar. How are you? Hadar: I'm beside myself. I'm so happy to
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have you here, here in my studio, in Tel Aviv. Samara: That's right, that's right. Yeah.
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I mean, you know, look, I do not want to say that there's a billion silver linings for
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Coronavirus because there are not, but one of them is that distance means nothing anymore.
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Hadar: Right, absolutely, it feels like I can almost hug you.
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Samara: I'm feeling it. And also it seems like it's been really hot in Tel Aviv, and
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I just got this like mad rush of heat. I mean, granted I'm in Los Angeles, so it's also hot
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here, but I do feel like I'm like really flushed as though we're sharing a space together,
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so... Hadar: Well, thank you for being here. The
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first time I heard your voice, first of all, then your name, then your message. I felt
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like you are my soulmate, and I need to connect with you. And luckily, I was able to do that.
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And I'm so grateful that you're here because I think that what you will be sharing here
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and the conversation that we're going to have is going to be very meaningful for so many
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people listening to this. So, thank you for being here.
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Samara: My pleasure, thank you. Thank you for discovering me. I didn't know that you
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existed and your community existed. And now I'm like, of course, of course. You know,
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I mean, we were talking a little bit before we started recording, I'm Hollywood-based
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in terms of the dialect work that I've done. And so I never really like went down the rabbit
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hole of seeing like what the internet version is.
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What you do when you don't have necessarily a coach right in front of you, and you're
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working one-on-one. And it's really wonderful to find that there's somebody else who's talking
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about, you know, how we talk the way that I do.
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Hadar: Right. Well, yes. Thank you. And for those who don't know you, what don't you introduce
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yourself? Samara: Okay. Well, so as I said, I'm in Hollywood.
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I spent my twenties in New York on the East coast of the US pursuing an acting career.
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I have an MFA in acting, Shakespeare's like my totally foundational background, the nerdiest
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of the nerdy. But you know, it has served me well. And now...
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Hadar: You and me both. Samara: I mean, I'm not apologizing for it.
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I'm just saying, I'm well aware that it is a way into acting and to speaking, it's not
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the only way in. But it served me in ways I absolutely could never have anticipated.
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And you know, part of my story, the last part of the story is that in the last few years,
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unrelated to Coronavirus, which obviously is affecting the US currently in in ways that,
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um, you don't see an end in sight. But even prior to that, for the last few years,
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really, since the 2016 election, I started coaching people who running for office. And
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sort of testing out if the way that I was working with actors on their voice and their
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speech and their dialects for stories, you know, for how they tell their stories and
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for how the stories of Hollywood get told, if that really was applicable outside of the
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entertainment industry. And, you know, obviously, I'm thinking in
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terms of vowels and consonants, but I'm also not, right. I mean, I'm thinking in terms
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of musicality, I'm thinking in terms of how our thoughts and our intentions and our heart
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and our gut connect to what comes out of our mouth. And that, needless to say, is relevant
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to everybody. Am I allowed to swear here? It's the internet.
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And so, you know, the first gamble, that I took with like, am I valuable in this realm
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was with women who were running for office. I have a bit of a background also in helping
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scientists. My dad is a scientist, so they were sort of in my late twenties, early thirties.
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I did some work helping coach scientists on public speaking. So I had that background
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as well. And then I started to experiment once that
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was really working with my friends circle, with entrepreneurs, with people who were pitching
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to Hollywood, you know, pitching in meetings, but not necessarily with creative backgrounds,
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or with performance backgrounds. And what is it, especially for women, especially
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for marginalized people of any sort who have been told in all kinds of subtle ways or,
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you know, not so subtle ways, their entire life, that they're not what power sounds and
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looks like. I work with people on like how to change that story, how to teach the people
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around them that there's a new way that power can sound. And a lot of that is, you know,
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that the world has to change, but a lot of it is that we can affect the way that we are
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showing up in spaces. Hadar: How much of it is the mindset and the
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conversation around it, and maybe sometimes taking action? And how much of it is physical?
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Samara: It's such a good question. It's really both. And I think mindset is more important.
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I mean, not that they have to be in competition, right? But yes, I think that if I were to
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give somebody a one-minute warmup to do before really, you know, scary conversation, whether
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it's a public speaking situation or just like a "I need a raise" type of thing, I would
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say the physical matters a lot in that particular case. Because getting our body loose and feeling
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playful, dancing for a minute, if we only have one minute, I would actually just literally
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tell people to dance and hum a little bit. But that is also because of the mindset aspect
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of it, which I would encourage prior to that one minute. But the mindset aspect of it is
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about telling ourselves in a really meaningful way, doing work on ourselves to trust, trust,
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trust that we deserve to be in that space. I mean, you know, we do. And in such subtle
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ways that even the strongest among us tell ourselves, but they don't really want to hear
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what I have to say. You know, I have this podcast and I've interviewed
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almost exclusively women, and most of them are really powerful, and they're on my podcast
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because they're experts in some capacity. And I've heard even among them, what happens
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in my coachings. Which is that when you ask a woman or somebody who has been, you know,
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systematically told that their voice doesn't matter, to tell a story about themselves they
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figure out a reason not to. Hadar: I think that I totally relate. And,
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you know, I've been teaching, I've been helping non-native speakers for over 10 years. And
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the first few years of my coaching had to do only with the technical stuff. Cause that's
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what I knew, and that's what I did. I had to kind of overcome a lot of challenges and
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barriers, but I wasn't thinking about it, right? I was just doing it as I was on the
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go. And once I started incorporating mindset and
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limiting, like changing limiting beliefs and reframing, and to talk about, to actually
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give them some actionable tasks to do, and to show up and to speak up the results. And
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I kept on doing the technical stuff and even less, I felt that the results were so much
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better. Because your podcast's name is 'Permission
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to Speak'... this is exactly what it's about. Because people... it's funny, cause I always
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talk about it in terms of people who have accents and make mistakes and get stuck, so
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they don't feel that their voices deserve to be heard. They think that they're going
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to waste people's time, people are not going to understand them. Or they're going to think
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that they're stupid because they made a grammar mistake, even though it's their second language.
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And it makes total sense. I mean, it's scientific that you would make mistakes.
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Samara: And those people that we're going to be talking to, don't speak more than one
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language, if they're speaking to native speakers. Hadar: This is part of the work. Although
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it doesn't really help them, like they don't believe it. Right? It's the imposter syndrome,
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it's all of that. That they feel that they're just not enough. In a second language even
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more, that's even heightened. So I absolutely see how that has worked for you as well.
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Samara: And honestly, the phrase 'permission to speak' has ended up resonating with me
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in more ways, since I launched the podcast. And also, I just sold a book on the same topic.
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I know, to Penguin Random House. Now I'm writing it, so it's scary to talk about it. But it
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made me really think about that phrase 'permission to speak'.
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Because we can talk about the speaking part, but it doesn't really work without the permission
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part. And the permission part is how to give ourselves permission, you know. How do we
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do that? How do we think about the ways that we've set up these narratives in our mind
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that, you know, how I sound is a worst way of speaking English than the people I'm speaking
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to, so they're going to be judging me. And even if they are, you know, we have ways
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that we can either reinforce that or start to break that down. I mean, definitely, just
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recently over the internet In this new era, I coached a gentleman who's from Iran who
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was talking about ,and whose English really is quite choppy. And he's quite new to the
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US, he's a refugee. But he's really joyful, and was clearly, like,
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game to try something new. And I said, "You know, would you consider practicing ahead
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of time?" I'm not big on, obviously, like memorizing things that we say that doesn't
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sound organic, and it's not usually a great recipe for success. "But maybe you could work
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on a few key things that just bring you a little sparkle". That say something like,
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you know, "English is new to me, but I'm doing... I'm thrilled with how well I can communicate
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with you". Or something that's like not an apology, but
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an acknowledgement. And just doing one of those up top is a way of warming up any space
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you're in, and acknowledging the problem, and making the problem the solution.
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Hadar: And also, like always being in a state, in process, right? So it's like, "It's new
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to me, but I'm doing my best to communicate well, I'm doing my best to be clear".
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Samara: Right. Or I learned a new word. You know, if that, if he, if he did or, you know,
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I learned, I just... you know, I'm so excited to talk to you, American person who might
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be judging me, because, uh, I'm getting better and better every day, still working on it.
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You know, like we get to... we get to frame it with the actual words that we say. As much
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as you know, with our body language, with our tone of voice, all of that,
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it's important to do it before. And it's important to also do it after when our tendency is always
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to remember the negative things and all, like all the bad parts.
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Hadar: I had once, um, like a group coaching with women, and one of them stood up and she
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spoke about, um, this talk that she gave and she was like, she got really quiet. And she
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was like, and then I got stuck for a few seconds. Felt like... the end of the world, or it was
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30 seconds, I don't know, but... And I asked her, did anyone mention, and it was like,
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no, they said it was a great talk, but for me, I felt like, you know, English is not
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my thing. I stopped speaking after that. And just like, from this entire talk that
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she gave an answered, she got stuck. It happens in your native language as well, but when
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it happens in English, you associate and you connect it to English and then you think,
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you know, I, this is just not for me. Samara: Well, in all, honestly, because, um,
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for the last few months I've been working almost exclusively with people for whom English
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is their first language. And we're just actually talking about issues that come up when we're
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public speaking, I can say to any of your, you know, viewers who aren't listeners, who
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are, who for whom English is their second language or third or fourth or whatever, you
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know, brilliant, brilliant, brilliant language skills you guys have.
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That this just is... it's so beyond this English as a second language issue. It really is like,
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how do we show up as humans? And that I say that, not to say like you're to diminish your
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story at all, but to actually give you even more permission of possible that truly this
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is a human experience. How we put thoughts from inside our head, which have to do with
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feelings, that we have, which do not have words attached. Experiences we have had, which
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do not have words attached and dreams that we have, which do not have words attached
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and how we communicate those things from inside of us out, is anyone's guess like, how do
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we figure out what word goes after what word to try to capture those things I just said
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that have no words attached. That is the human experience. And it feels
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really front of mind when English is not your first language. And when we're speaking in
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a language that isn't our own. I mean, I spent a summer in France when I spoke semi good,
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bad French. And I remember like how much I felt, like I owed the people who are listening
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to me because the... because of the favor that they were doing by being patient enough
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with my bad luck, I mean, I am, well, I really, I really feel what that is. And I want to
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say that on top of that, it is a human experience. That communication is messy and imperfect,
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and that is, I think it's beauty. And also obviously it's challenge for all of us.
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Hadar: Right. So beautiful. And there's something really comforting about that, that we're all
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in this together. And also solvable, like if, okay, it's not just about my English.
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So when English is no longer the issue, then it's a lot easier to... to speak with fluency
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because fluency is only a result of the state of mind and the confidence.
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It really has nothing to, I mean, it has to do with vocabulary and grammar and all of
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that, but you know, a lot of times when people tell me about how they struggled to speak
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at work, I ask them, do you feel, is... do you have the same experience when you're with
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your friend over a glass of wine and they say, no, so it's not the English. And this
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really correlates with what you're telling. Samara: I'm a big fan also of like, you know,
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when we are talking about really like a literal public speaking, like getting on a stage type
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of public speaking, which, you know, in the US no one's doing right now, but like, I hope
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it for everybody. But you know, when we're talking about that, I'm often, the metaphor
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for me is often this idea of scaling up that version of ourselves that we are comfortable
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with and not every room can handle that person, you know.
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Sometimes our instincts are right that the version of ourselves, when we're with our
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friends, having a drink isn't appropriate, but often it is just a slightly heightened
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version, a slightly more like breathing, taking pauses, knowing that we have the floor and
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no one will interrupt us version of that conversational selves that we all have.
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And, you know, for many of us, it just feels so wildly different in those two different
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contexts. And if we can, if we can, one of the things that we can say to ourselves as
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we're preparing to speak in public, even if it's just in a meeting or whatever, even more
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so if it's just a meeting, is what am I like with my favorite people?
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How is she or he going to be welcomed in that room? The answer probably is very well. And
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we tell ourselves no, but that space is more formal. No, but I can't, I can't dare bring
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myself into the room. And, you know, I've talked to a lot of people. I have a, uh, episode
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that's coming out of my podcast soon with somebody, I don't want to give it away, but
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somebody who has worked with some of the greatest world leaders, and we talked about this issue
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of formality. And she said, you know, the best public speakers are comfortable. So what
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is it to feel comfortable? And obviously it feels like an oxymoron. It feels like a total
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opposite. You're supposed to be on a stage and feel
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discomfort. We all know culturally like being on a stage is supposed to be scary and awful
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and weird, and you're supposed to hate public speaking. But I think the secret in honestly
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changing who the leaders of the world are, is in us realizing that the version of us
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that is at our most comfortable, if we can scale him or her up a little tiny bit to those
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stages, we are what the new sound of leadership is.
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Hadar: And I also think that public speaking in general is changing. It is becoming more
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conversational and a lot of ideas about what you should do with your body and how you should
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use your voice. All of that. It's like, no longer... yeah, oh my God!
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For those listening on the podcast, you should come over to YouTube to watch this, but was
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like... booing. Samara: Yeah, right? It's like... -It's so
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fake. I don't want to throw up all conventional
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wisdom. There is, you know, people talk about what to do with your hands, fine. I mean,
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as I'm doing it, you can't even see it but as I'm doing this, I'm doing like these massive
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hand gestures that are completely organic, you know, fine.
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You can do, you can, you can think, you can read some paragraph in some book about how
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the greatest Ted talkers, uh, have, have conducted their bodies and learn a little something.
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Sure. But I would argue that... I'm believing you deserve to be in the space and breathing
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like a person who truly breathes, not a person who holds their breath because they're bracing
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for something scary to happen... is going to solve so much of that. And then
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also the work ahead of time before you give up, before you give a talk, sorry, but for
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the work you do ahead of time before you are supposed to be up on that stage, thinking
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about, um, what matters to me in this, what matters to me in what I'm about to say and
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how do I say it like it matters to me. Hadar: Yeah, and then communicating it, like,
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you're really speaking to someone... Samara: Like you're talking to, like you're
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personal. I mean, I sort of joke, I say this all the time when I'm coaching clients and
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they all laugh because, you know, it's sort of a mean thing to say, but it's also like,
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there is, we do have we all, I'm going to just say we all, I'm going to say like, like
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I'm an authority on, on everybody. We all have this sense that to be a... uh,
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an expert or to be on a stage, is to be some certain way, to be like the people who we
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grew up hearing, to be like the best person we can think of, but certainly not be like
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ourselves. Oh God, no. Right? But when we breathe, when we do that dancing ahead of
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time, all of that is about saying, can we bring some of our real self up there?
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Can we be a person and not be a... Robotic monotone version of a person who's hiding.
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And I'm here to, the permission part is me saying, yeah, I am, I am not judging anybody
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for hiding vocally, physically. The ways that we, you know, cover our bodies and our voices,
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I'm not judging at all. I am saying it is so human and I so hear you.
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And we live in a, you know, depending on what culture you live in, you know, tell me if
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this feels right or not to you, but we live in a pretty, you know, patriarchal capitalist,
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white supremacist situation here. And, um, you know, we, we have heard that it doesn't,
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that that being a person, uh, would be, um, less welcome. And the answer is no, the answer
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is no. Hadar: Right. You know, when I, uh, when I
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just opened my YouTube channel, I was so ashamed of the fact that I'm a non native speaker
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teaching pronunciation. So I would hide that fact, like I...
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Samara: Oh my God! Hadar: I didn't mention it anywhere. No, go
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back and watch my first few videos, a robot speaking to the camera: Now we are going to
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talk about the schwa. Anyway, and I thought that's the formula for success, right? Like
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you need to speak, you need to sound authoritative. Samara: Of course. And also way to make, um,
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you know, one of your greatest strengths into a weakness in your own mind.
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Hadar: Right. And, uh, and. It only went like, it was only when I decided... also, I was,
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you know, doing some coaching and I was, I decided that, okay. I have, like, I was fed
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up with it. I was actually so bored with myself and I was unhappy with how it came out.
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And then like one day I just created this video telling my story. And from that moment
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on, actually there was this guy calling me, he's like a public speaking coach and we're
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having this conversation. And he was like, you know, I was watching
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all your videos. And at the beginning you sounded, like there was something there that
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shifted around video number... And he actually remembered what videos, he did his research.
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And it was exactly that point where I just, it's kind of, like I said, this is me. I make
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mistakes. And I was also, because I made mistakes. Right.
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I make grammar mistakes and my pronunciation is not perfect. And I mean, I have typos,
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and right, what is perfect? What is the proper pronunciation, anyway? Pronunciation not perfect,
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according to the YouTube Samara: I'm validating your experience and
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also saying, well, I don't like those words, but yeah, exactly right.
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Hadar: Right, right. The accent police, I call it. Where people, people kind of like,
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well, actually you're a, you know, you, you have not aspirated your P's in this video.
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I'm like, okay, whatever. Samara: And also, coming from acting, and
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then also having like a little bit of a like popular linguistics kind of, you know, sensibility,
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um, you know, so much of that is about, uh, you know, this idea of descriptivism versus
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prescriptivism, right? We're not saying you should do it this way.
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This is the right way. We're saying the opposite. How interesting, how curious, how do you speak?
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How cool that is, right? And, and obviously when we're learning, when, when I have to
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coach somebody in a specific accent for a specific job, I have to sort of narrow how
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much, uh, you know, just like absolute freedom we have into something that feels like it's
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telling the right story and not telling the wrong story. But even in then, you know, even
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in that, like when I've coached people to play real life figures, uh, They don't, no
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one gets an Oscar or an A for sounding the most like the person they get an Oscar or
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an A - Teacher Samara - um, for capturing the essence.
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And essence has nothing to do with what sound goes where, it has to do with who is this
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human being and what is their lived experience and how does their voice reflect their lived
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experience? Which is what I'm always interested in with clients, you know?
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Hadar: So, so how, how do you work? Maybe you can speak to that a little bit. Like how
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would you help someone capture the essence of a sound, an accent, a language, um, both
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when you work on specific dialects or foreign accents, but also when you work with your
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foreign students on sounding more intelligible, right? Like, what are the key factors that
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you focus on? Samara: Okay, it's a big, like, it ranges
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a lot, so... Hadar: Right, this is going to be kind of
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a two-hour answer. Samara: Yeah, let me give you the... but no,
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there is, there is a real, um, there's some simple stuff. There's some foundational stuff.
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One of them is, when I was in my twenties in New York, learning all this stuff and still
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thinking I was going to be a Shakespearian actress, but I just kept finding, I mean,
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this is really part of my story, I kept finding dialect mentors. Like I was not looking and
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they found me or I found them. And you know, the, the, the part of me that super geeks
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out about this, like you do, was clearly already, you know, bursting forth.
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And I was like, no, no, I'm an actress , thanks. But nonetheless, I kept finding, and one of
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them is this woman named Kate Wilson. She teaches at Julliard and, um, she taught me
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a physical gesture way of learning the pure vowels of American English. And when I, when
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I was a, I spent a summer at the public theater in Manhattan, so very... that's where Shakespeare
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in the park happens. Like I was, you know, I was touching greatness and it was...
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Hadar: How old were you there, 20? Samara: 23... about to start grad school?
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Between college and grad school. Hadar: We might've lived in New York at the
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same time. Samara: And just drank too much red wine.
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Hadar: I think I saw you. Oh, don't worry. Me too. Jameson, I think.
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Samara: Well, you were cooler than me, I was just like cheap red wine.
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I think that's what artsy people drink. Hadar: And it was going to every, yeah, like
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every Shakespearean play that was out there. I was there.
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Samara: Totally, all the things, all the things. Um, I volunteered everywhere. I was like,
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I, I made no money. I was a cocktail waitress. So then I just like spent all my days doing
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god-knows-what, um, but it was... Hadar: Where did you work? Now you have to
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tell me. Samara: Cafe Deville, And Asia de Cuba, which
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was a one of those... Hadar: Okay, I have to ask you something,
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later. We know someone. Okay. Crazy. Samara: I'm sure. I'm sure. Okay. But to answer
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your question, um, Kate Wilson taught this method that I don't think was hers necessarily,
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but she had evolved it into something and, and then I have since evolved it, um, and
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at her, at her suggestion, because when I'm... when I was in my late twenties and I got my
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first professorship at Pace university in Manhattan, uh, teaching, uh, the BFA kit,
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so the undergraduate theater kids, uh, for the stage, um, I called her and was like,
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could you remind me about some of that stuff? And she said, no, this is where you have to
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take it and make it your own, which was... talk about a teachable moment. It was, that
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was very valuable. So, but... all of which is to say there are physical gestures to keep
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track of all the vowel sounds. Here are a few that I can do while I'm in
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this square. A lot of them require like, like rubbing your tummy and stuff like that, that
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doesn't work so well over this. But, um, and this is, as you said, good, better to see
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on YouTube than over audio. But, so this is the short, I sound it as in sit, right. And
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this is as in B or C. So if you have I and E. Right, I will say
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E exists in every language. I does not, right? It is one of those bizarro American words,
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American sounds, English sounds, um, which does exist in a few other languages. I don't
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want to say like, we own that sound, but for SO many foreigners... And when I taught at
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Stella Adler acting school in Hollywood, it's an international school, I didn't realize
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that when I got the job, I thought it was sort of going to be like Pace. And I was really
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with my, like, you know, teach everybody standard American and then move on to doing Irish and
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you know, all these other things. And as of Day 1, I was like, Oh, everyday. I'm not a
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single American, which was really, I mean, I learned so much, I became a better coach
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for sure. And figured out my pattern, or pattern makes
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it sound like I'm like a charlatan, but you know, my pattern is in like the way I talk
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about this stuff that really lands with people with a lot of joy and a lot of speed, which
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is very much my M.O. Like I want it to really work and then like, let's move on and you
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could practice on your own. Um, I want people to feel autonomous as quickly
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as possible. That's very much like, you know, this is not about like here's our long system
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and you have to come to me for six years. It's like, let me give you, let me throw at
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you as much as I can. If you record it and take notes and whatever, sit with it, do your
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own thing. Come back to me when you audition for specific
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stuff, but like, I really want you to just practice it on your own and feel this out
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and watch videos and listen to people who are your type, but sound a little differently
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from you and sound that out of your mouth and feel what it feels like. And you know,
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this sort of like soft brain version of this, rather than sort of get your books into your
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brain version of this. So part of that is why those physical gestures
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really worked for me. So, you know, when I had that is sound and I had this Argentinian
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girl who very memorably said, you know, I just want help with like, how to say, how
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to say bitch and not like sound like I'm saying beach. Like, I don't want to go to the beach.
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I want to call her a bitch. But I'm like, you need the short I sound. And we can talk
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about how we make that in the mouth. But honestly, I was never framed that way.
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I didn't think about like, I, you know, I don't want to speak ill... but for me, oral
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posture is not a phrase that helps me. If you, if you're looking at a specific character
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to go to your question about somebody who's playing a specific person... absolutely! When
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you, when you watch that person, if something hits you like, Oh God, they feel really far
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back, or they feel really weirdly present, or God, this part of their... it's opening
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up. That, that kind of a hit, that's like image based, use that. But if it's like, everybody
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from this part of the world has this oral posture, I'm like...
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Hadar: No... Samara: But as an actor, especially, I'm like,
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I'm supposed to have an intention as this character and to also think about where the
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[mumbles]. So, I mean, I guess part of it is I start with those physical gestures to
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help people, um, just literally know what the pure vowel sounds are.
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Hadar: Give me some more, do you remember? Samara: Of course. I mean, I could do all
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of them if you want... but it's a little... Hadar: Please, just a few more.
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Samara: Okay. So, um, so this is A apple. It's like you have an Apple... I've actually
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recently been starting to teach it like this because I don't want people to feel like,
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oral posture wise, I don't want people to feel like it's a pushback sound, right? It
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should feel sort of like it's coming out of you, A. From obviously most of the world,
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this sound doesn't exist either and it's weirdly ugly. And I say that with no judgment.
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But I say that on purpose because so many people try to find a beautiful version of
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it. And if you try to find a beautiful version of A, you get to, you get one of the other
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English A sounds, which is, A as in father. Spanish and Hebrew, and a lot of languages
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have an in-between sound - A, which we don't have. So we have to figure out if we, if we're,
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if we're an American, we have to figure out if you have a name, like, for example, Gal
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GoDoe - that's my terrible American pronunciation of it on purpose.
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But you know, if you have a name like Gal, right? And, and the proper pronunciation is
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Gal, then like we have to think, we have to figure out, is it A as in Apple or A as in
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father? So we can go to 'gal', which is a word in English, so we do, we just naturally,
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we go to 'gal'. Or we can go to gaal, right? Which sounds...
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Sure. And then we do that also with like 'pasta', you know, this, the, the Romance language
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version of that would have a more forward sound - pasta. A. And instead we go to either,
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British goes to 'aa' - 'pasta', and American goes to 'ah' - 'pasta'. And this A sound is
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super relaxed. Like, I mean, it's also like giving your heart a little caress. So obviously,
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my clients love this. It's like you do this right before you go in for an audition.
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Hadar: This is one of the easier sounds for people to produce, at the same time, they
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don't use it as often as they should and could, you know, in English. Because a lot of times
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they kinda like, take the 'ah' sound, especially when it's spelled with O, and turn it into
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'oh'. Samara: I'm going to pop out just real fast
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for people who are watching. And this, is like a little string coming out of your solar
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plexus - A, A, A. This is a short O sound - A. So we have two O's, I say we have two
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O's in English. Unfortunately, neither of them is the one that every other language
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has, which is 'o'. We just do not round our lips like that ever, 'o'.
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So we have A, that one I was just doing - A, A, A. And then we have 'ow', which is the
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diphthong of 'uh'-'cup' into 'uw'. 'ow', 'ow'. 'Ow'. Right? But to go back to that first
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one - A, the non diphthong one - A, and that h-sound 'ah' - are identical. I was about
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to say fucking identical, but they are fucking identical. And, you know, we can argue with
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that in terms of length, but technically 'ah' is longer and A is shorter.
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But 50 years ago, they really had a difference Even 30 years, depending on what age person
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you're talking to, they still have a slight difference in that. The word 'not', not, not,
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we'll have a little up and down shape, not. Versus like, I dunno... I'm trying to think
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of an N one. 'Na... 'narwal'. Anyway, there you go. But 'ah', 'ah', versus A.
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But, especially contemporary, especially our age, and you know, a little younger, a little
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older, or all the way younger I should say, and a little older, we should absolutely feel
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comfortable making that exactly the same short O, long A - 'ah'.
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Hadar: And it's so much easier to merge sounds. And especially, when, you know, speaking a
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second language, and you have less vowels than the spoken language, it's so much easier
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to merge it and just do that. And then they go to the dictionary or they hear from someone
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that this is what they should do. And they're like, "Oh, well I'm confused". And this is
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where I like, language is something that is very fluid, and you just need to, you first
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need to sound clear. Let's start with that. And if you say...
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Samara: Sorry, I just got really excited. I'm sorry. I interrupted because I got...
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yes, yes, 100%. And one of the things that was my, I only had two rules in my class when
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I used to teach at Stella Adler, they're kind of two versions of the same rule. Neither
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of them had to do with putting yourself on the way. But they were, one: fuck spelling.
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Or if you wanted to put it a little bit more gently: spelling is irrelevant.
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Because when you're trying to come up with rules for "Oh, but this is 'oo', so it must
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be 'uw', I'm like, "I'm so sorry, on behalf of all English, I have tell you".
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Hadar: You should be. Samara: I am, I take full responsibility.
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I actually have this book , this thing that I recently re-read. I mean...
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Hadar: The mother tongue. Samara: He's an old white guy and he's deeply
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problematic, and it's from 1990. And I'm like, Oh my God, I was alive then. It feels really,
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really, really wrong. But it is full of a lot of academic wisdom and it's totally friendly.
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But it's called 'The mother tongue: english and how it got that way'. It is a reminder,
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it's a reminder for anybody who needs it on the permission front that like, as you say,
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it's constantly evolving. That Old English apparently used to be somewhat more like Spanish,
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where every sound actually maintain its integrity and have the spelling, and the out loud was
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exactly, you could tell the rules by looking at it, is what I'm trying to say. But not
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so much with contemporary English, for anybody who's following at home. So that was my first
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rule. But my other rule, which is why I bring it
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up is your honesty. Your honesty. So if we're trying to say, "but it should be", or, "but
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someone told us that this is what's right", listen to your ear and trust it. If you were
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35:57
hearing Americans make that 'ah' sound and that short A sound 'ah', sound exactly the
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same, trust yourself, trust your ear. Hadar: It's so, it's so good and so interesting
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because there is always this... I noticed that my students, for example, always doubt
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themselves of what would they hear and what comes out. Which is okay, because the brain
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does filter out a lot of information, especially if they're not used to sounds so they might
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like filter out the actual sound. And they hear it through the filter of the spelling.
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36:27
Right? A lot of times, especially when it comes to
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the schwa, and I once had an argument with a student where... argument, we were...
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Samara: Debate. Hadar: Debate. Yeah, exactly. And he was like,
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"Yeah, there is O, in computer". I was like, "No, it's a schwa". "No, no, no, I can hear,
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say it. And I said, "computer". "You said 'cOmputer'". Right? And like that little sound
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he heard... Yeah. And it's just like, had you not been born into, had you not studied
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spelling first thing as you started learning English? I mean, that wouldn't have been a
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problem, right. Samara: No, exactly. A five-year-old who's
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beginning to learn to write and to read, and like it's the opposite way, right? I mean,
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he knows the word "computer" and so he would never spell it with an O.
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Hadar: Right. Samara: And he has to be taught, you know,
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reverse engineer back to like, well, I know it doesn't sound that way, but...
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Hadar: How do you explain that, yeah. So what do you think, we talked about it just
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before we hit 'record' and I told you about my thoughts and how I deal with the phrase
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"speak like a native", and I would love to hear what you think about it. And also, what
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tips do you have for speakers of English as a second language who really struggle with,
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physically their voices. Like they don't come out.
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And I do think that it relates, right, because they feel that their voices are not the standard
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or what people expect or what is the norm. I was asking a question then I was answering
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it as asking. Samara: No, I love it. Also, you know, I'm
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new to podcasting. I, I have this podcast that's, we just dropped episode 12 today.
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Hadar: Which, by the way, you have to go and subscribe to the podcast. It's called 'Permission
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to Speak'. Really, I'm eagerly waiting every single week. Or maybe I should say I eagerly
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wait every single week for a new episode. So, it's so good.
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Samara: Both verb tenses would have worked just perfectly.
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Also, the point of communication is communication, and I understood the thought.
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Hadar: Exactly. Samara: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I
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mean, um... Hadar: We're going to link to it by the way.
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It's in the description and the show notes. Samara: That's very kind. Yeah. I mean, obviously,
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you know, part of what's, what I think we're both excited about in finding each other is
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that this conversation is just so, it doesn't happen very often anywhere, but it's really
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big, and overlapse with every aspect of our lives.
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39:02
I mean, how we use our voice is just not, it's just so much not about literally how
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we use our voice. It's just not about like what pitch we're talking at, although that
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also matters and it's interesting and has all kinds of gender and stuff and all of that.
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39:15
But, you know, it's about, it's about all the ways that we're showing up in the world
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and all the ways that we are, or are not embracing our individualism.
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And then you had some, you had like two parts to an amazing question that I wanted to answer.
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39:28
I don't remember them now. Hadar: I don't think I remember them either.
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Okay. The voice, the voice changes when speaking, because of, okay.
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Samara: So you were asking about the native, native, native,
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Hadar: Speak like a native. Yeah. Samara: Yeah.
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Hadar: How do you feel about that? Samara: Well, it's not a phrase that means
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much to me. I will say that. It makes me think, I'm going to share a tiny, um, metaphorical
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40:01
story that's not, that's very much not the same as what you're talking about, but is.
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40:04
But I have a friend who's in her mid twenties who is in Hollywood, was an assistant at a
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40:11
really massive, like, you know, movie development company. And wanted to leave, and start an
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activism organization for the assistant level, people in Hollywood too, who have no money
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40:22
and no time to figure out small ways that they can be of use to the world, and ultimately,
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40:27
also kind of unionized, like there isn't really a union for assistants and they're treated
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pretty terribly. So it wasn't gonna be an official union, but the whole idea of like,
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40:35
you know, of union, unionizing it's like, you know, we're stronger together than apart.
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And she had this idea, and we sat on this couch and she ran it by me. And I'm an advisor
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40:43
now on her, for her organization. And she said, "But I'm just so young. I don't know
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40:52
if anyone will take me seriously". And I underline this because she took leaping
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41:02
that is the strongest about her position, when she wants to do this. You know, the thing
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that makes her be able to hold a mirror up to everybody else in the town who is her generation
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and lead them, and thought of that as a weakness instead of a strength.
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And I just, I think back to that a lot, because I can feel when I do that to myself, and I
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think a lot of us do that to ourselves. And it is totally easy to say," if she were older
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and knew even more people, then she could have led better", but she would have been
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less connected to her people. And if you sounded 100% American people out there, you would
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do better. But no, I mean, the thing is we all bring
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our life experience to the table and we aren't actually, no one really wants the most boring
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41:50
person to have the most power. Except for the most boring person. And you know, obviously
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41:56
don't want to call anybody boring, but you know, the people who have the most conventionally
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42:01
empowering stories, the straight white men of the world who have never thought about
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42:06
how their voice sounds, because no one has ever questioned it.
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42:10
God bless them. I am not judging them, but I'm saying I'm not speaking to them. And to
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everybody else. And even my husband, he is totally straight white man. And I copped to
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that. But, you know, his own experience, the place he grew up, the way that he felt as
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42:28
a kid, but, you know, the different gradations of how we have felt kept out of power. We're
503
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42:34
allowed to sort of own all of that and then turn our problem into our solution, and not
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42:38
be, not sit on that couch and say, but my greatest strength is my greatest weakness.
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42:44
And so, you know, I also, I just feel like when my foreigners have broken - my foreigners,
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quote, unquote - my actors, my clients, have broken through, and really gotten those roles
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that really reflect their souls, they get to be in that position everyone wants to be
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43:04
in where they get to laugh at that time that they once thought that their background was
509
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43:09
, you know, a drawback instead of a benefit. Hadar: It's like when you, when you were validated
510
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43:15
by society, it's okay. Right? But until then, and usually people are not validated...
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43:22
Samara: Then we have to validate ourselves and ask our friends to validate us. And that
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is horrid and it feels, it feels, I mean, it feels quiet enough when we're just validating
513
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ourselves and our friends, it feels quiet enough that we still hear the voices that
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say, 'you're not good enough'. Hadar: Yeah. But if you don't do it, like
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43:39
you have to do it. Because you won't be validated by others If you don't validate yourself,
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cause you'll never show up. Samara: And then to make this really practical,
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how that ends up showing up in our voices is that we realize, okay, that little vocal
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warm up that I can do - and I don't mean a massive one, I'm not just not a big fan of
519
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like, 'you have to take two hours to warm up', you know. But that little five-minute
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one where you make sure that your jaw is relaxed and you make sure that your tongue, you know,
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which goes all the way down to here, like, you know, isn't holding all of the tension
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44:07
of your life and your, you know, trilling out your lips.
523
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44:11
You realize that the way that you can actually use your vocal apparatus for the athleticism
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44:16
that is speaking any language, but certainly English, is the way that new slightly pushing
525
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44:24
out new-found confidence can show up in your voice. You can actually say, "This is what
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44:29
showing up sounds like. I'm going to, in the phrase “this is what showing up sounds like”.
527
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44:33
I emphasize the word ‘up’. Okay. I don't know, it's not a rule. It was not the most
528
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44:37
idiomatic thing, but it felt right in the moment.
529
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44:39
And then instead of saying, this is what's showing up sounds like, which would be a really
530
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generic way of saying it. This is what showing up sounds like... I breathed and I punched
531
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the word ‘up’ like it mattered to me. This is what showing up sounds like.
532
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44:53
And you know, not every circumstance and not every Zoom meeting you ever do requires that
533
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level of athleticism. But what if you can practice that on your own? And the answer
534
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45:03
to your question about what to do on your own to improve that, to me, besides, you know,
535
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45:09
actually getting help on really specific sounds that your ear just needs to learn how to hear
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45:13
better, which, you know, is what somebody like you is really valuable for and somebody
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45:17
like me when I'm actually like doing it, which is right now, I'm just book writing and living
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45:22
in a pandemic. But if you can memorize, if you can make yourself,
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45:26
whether you're an actor or not, memorize a bit of text, hopefully something that you
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45:30
really like, maybe it’s even just like five sentences out of Glennon Doyle's Untamed,
541
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that speaks to you. Or something that feels contemporary and feels like it means something
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45:42
or has the potential to mean something to you and make like, by which, I mean, your
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45:45
body does something. And walk around her house saying it, and have
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45:49
it super memorized, so you're not thinking about the next line, not thinking about the
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45:53
next line, and just doing it. You know, I used to do this all the time and I did it
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45:56
with Shakespeare and I did it with contemporary stuff. Now it's like, you know, pick anything
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that matters, poetry, whatever. And the more that you do that on your own,
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46:05
in a room that feels safe, and maybe alone, the more you can figure out what is the version
549
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46:11
of me. She doesn't have to entirely be this person, but what is the version of me that
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46:16
isn't vocally hiding? What would she sound like and what does she do to my body? And
551
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46:21
just try, you know, see what happens. I mean, I wish I had like something I could pick up
552
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2780
46:24
right now to sort of do an example, but I'm, I'm making enough sense.
553
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2080
46:26
Hadar: I have to tell you. I love it. I love it. And it's, in the past, I think two years,
554
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46:35
I have an online program and I have a bunch of students and we’re in a Facebook group.
555
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46:40
And then I said like, I felt they needed something a little different, two years ago. And I introduced
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46:45
them to the power speech based on the power pose, where they had to memorize like a fierce
557
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46:51
monologue, right? One where the character is like shouting.
558
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46:53
And I told them, you have to memorize it. And they had to memorize it, and then do it
559
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47:00
full out. Because I wanted them to feel, to experience feeling powerful in English, without
560
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47:08
thinking about the words. Samara: Without the words, without having
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47:12
them, right. Memorization helps with that. Hadar: But like having this... Yes! Especially
562
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47:16
something that you relate to and that you enjoy, and what I've seen there...
563
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47:19
Samara: You have to turn off the part of you that that's like, what word is going to come
564
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47:23
next. And if you can take that off your plate, then you get to really just work on first,
565
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47:27
you know, in a contained space. What does it feel like to stand up for myself?
566
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47:31
Hadar: Right. And that insecurity of like, I don't know what to say next is, you really
567
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47:36
hear a difference in the voice. One of my students said, "I never thought my voice could
568
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47:41
sound that way. Like, I've never heard my voice that way". Cause she's like a very soft
569
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47:46
talker and you could barely hear her videos, and all of a sudden she was like full out
570
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47:51
and very powerful. So, I absolutely, you know, I think that this
571
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47:58
is such a great technique. And acting in general, I started doing, like, acting workshops for
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my students, for non-actors. But it's just, they enjoy it so much and they learn so much
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48:09
from it because when you set an intention, intonation is just like, or the melody or
574
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48:15
prosody or whatever, is just a result If you know what you're talking about and you are
575
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48:20
safe using the words. Samara: I like to say that there's like two
576
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48:23
ways to go into a line of text that's complicated. And this goes for acting, but also for just,
577
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48:28
you know, if you're public speaking, a line that Barack Obama says that’s long and complicated
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48:32
to know which word gets the emphasis, like I just said with ‘up’ in that earlier
579
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4641
48:37
example, you know? But there's two ways to go into this. One of them is to actually think
580
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48:40
what is the operative word? And that takes a little bit of the hard brain instead of
581
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48:43
the soft brain. And it's a little bit of the operative word is the word that operates the
582
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48:46
thought, it's the word that gets the lift. And it's not necessarily the most interesting
583
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48:51
word in the thought. I like to give the example from when I worked with a Brazilian woman
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48:55
who had the line in the movie, in the movie she was working on, "I don't give a shit".
585
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49:00
And "shit" is the most fun word there, but "give" is actually where the emphasis goes,
586
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49:05
right? And if you actually say, "I don't give a SHIT", it sounds weirdly like you do give
587
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49:09
a shit, which is like really messing with the intention, you know? It's just, it's a
588
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49:13
bummer, it’s a bummer how idiomatic expressions work.
589
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1950
49:15
But my point is that there is the sort of intellectual way of going about it, which
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49:21
I'm not against. It's just that it has a time and place, and it's not going to feel as embody.
591
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49:25
And then there's the emotional connection way. And I think of them not as competing,
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49:30
but as sort of checking your work. Hadar: The only challenging thing about that
593
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49:34
is that a lot of times they carry over some patterns, like rhythm and stress patterns
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49:41
from their native language... Samara: Well, that’s actually why I mean
595
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49:44
doing that work on operative words. It does not just mean like picking a word and lifting
596
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4180
49:48
it. It means getting really conscious about if this thought is, "I was going to go to
597
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49:53
Chicago tomorrow, but now I'm going to go today". So 'tomorrow' versus 'today' are the
598
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49:58
two things that are being held in opposition and the fancy, you know, Shakespeare word
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50:02
is 'antithesis'. Hadar: Antithesis.
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50:04
Samara: By the way, a Greek word, because we're… Can we go to Greece together?
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50:12
Hadar: In August, just put in your calendar. Samara: Done! Anyway, antithesis, two ideas
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50:23
being held in opposition within a single thought, right? So I thought I was going to do it tomorrow,
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50:27
but instead I'm doing it today. There are rules. And we follow those rules when we're
604
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50:31
native American English speakers, we follow those rules. And even native speakers break
605
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50:38
those rules when they're suddenly public speaking. They don’t know which word gets lifted if
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50:44
they wrote it ahead of time. And now they're out here, they're thinking about the audience
607
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50:49
and thinking about how they look, and they're not connecting to the thought.
608
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3380
50:52
And this is what I mean about these two things being, being ways to check your work. If ahead
609
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5170
50:57
of time you have underlined the word ‘tomorrow’ to make sure that today and tomorrow get,
610
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5210
51:03
you know, get their nice little, get a little, little pitch punch, you know? Right? "I thought
611
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51:08
I was going to do it today… tomorrow". I usually call it a lift cause a punch feels
612
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51:13
a little aggressive, but you know, there is, there is an aspect of it.
613
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3000
51:16
You know, you can underline it or put it into Alex in your, in your written thing to remind
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51:21
yourself. Or you can dare yourself to think in the middle of your thought, even in front
615
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51:27
of an audience, and to really think, and if you really think. "I was going to do this
616
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6270
51:33
today, but I decided I needed to do it tomorrow": it will also lift, it will also do the punch.
617
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6910
51:40
So that's what I mean. It's not, you're right, and actually the way to undo the rhythms that
618
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5560
51:45
happen either because we're disconnected or because they were bringing in stuff from our
619
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3190
51:49
own language that doesn't work. The way to undo that is to think about these operative
620
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3630
51:52
words more than anything. Hadar: And that, that idea of like, it's okay
621
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4350
51:57
to... pause for a second and think about what you want to say and not go on autopilot and
622
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5850
52:02
survival mode where you just have to speak, so people don't think that you...
623
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4040
52:06
Samara: And it’s the hardest thing to aid a pause. And really not an empty pause, right?
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8110
52:15
But to pause, to actually breathe, to actually think like, what do I want to connect? What
625
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impulses are like coming at me from what I'm taking in about the room I'm in and how will
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I, how like, trust and allow that to change me. You know, a lot of this work is about
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surprising ourselves. If we never surprise ourselves, we're actually kind of not being
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people up there. So part of it is that, you know, for sure, you're just like...
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Hadar: Can I hug you? Okay. Listen, I have one last question about the voice, which I
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think my, you know, the viewers/listeners are going to love hear us talk about it, because
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it's not discussed enough. First of all, so it's a little complex, but,
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a lot of people experience that when they move into English, their voice changes. And
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it's everything that we discussed about the permission and about being too shy and not
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feeling that they should be heard. But also, there is, do you... like, what do you say
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about different voices for different languages, or different cultures, right? Like sometimes
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there is like the quiet voice that is just a result of a culture or norms, cultural norms.
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Or a preconceived notion of how an American voice should sound, and then the voice is
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manipulated to sound more American, but it's then not authentic, and people don't feel
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like themselves anymore. Samara: I mean, you, you hit on sort of contradictions
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in there, for sure. Here's what I know. Some of what we do to manipulate our voice hurts
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ourselves, either on an anatomical level or in terms of our sense of power. And we're
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doing it because we think we have to be a certain way that we've heard other people
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be. Often that means, and this is not even necessarily language related, it's just sort
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of public persona related, but, um, often that means that, men, especially go down a
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little bit in pitch and do what I lovingly call the superhero voice. Right? So like you
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talk like this, and everything comes across like it's really important. And I sound like
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Batman. You know, but that's a way of not using pitch
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at all anymore, because as soon as we're sort of just living in our throats. We can't have
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any pitch, and pitch, I'm a big, big proponent of this - pitch equals vulnerability. When
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we don't share our pitch, when we go monotone - which again, not judging, we do it when
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we're feeling scared - it is a way of hiding. It is a way of saying "I don't care that much.
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Don't worry. I'm cool". Hadar: Yeah.
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Samara: If we show more range, if we go up and down, what we're saying is I care. That
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is the root of our greatest power and it is also the root of our greatest vulnerability.
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And people will be able to see us and hear us, and then they will have opinions about
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us. Hadar: This is so big. And when, especially
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with my, with students and followers, they say, "oh, like that thing, I sound monotone.
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I, like I don't have any variation, I don't sound interesting..." And I heard you speak
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about that, on the podcast about vulnerability. And I was like, yes, that's what it is. Not
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just patterns from the first language, it’s really about, 'I just want to be okay, not
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to make too many mistakes, so people don't notice'.
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Or sometimes like, 'I'm going to sound American and people are going to think, who does she
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think she is?' Or who does he think he is, like using his American accent.
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Samara: Well, and we can talk and I'd love to actually hear feedback from people afterwards
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on your own experiences with this, because I think that so much of what we're talking
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about on a really practical level, of what's going on in our heads, is the fear of the
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feedback we're going to get. And I'd love to hear from people that with the feedback
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is that they have gotten that's really stuck with them.
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And also with the percentage of how much has been negative versus positive, because you
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know, us humans, we can focus on that one negative comment and ignore the 50 positive
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ones. And I think part of the solution, if we really are trying to literally change our
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culture, in terms of who we, whose voices we hear, not just we talk, but we hear as
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powerful is about changing the way we think about those trolls. Cause they're out there,
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but they should not be defining all of our lives.
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And especially if they're just a few really, you know, people who are on their own goddamn
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journey, they can be them, but they don't get to take over all of ours and they have
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for way too way too long. And I think it's an image of the people who are going to mock
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us more than it's real. I'm interested in what that is. And I think the only real solution
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is in all of us sharing our stories so that we can realize how much we're collectively
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stronger than them. Hadar: Right. And so, I do encourage you,
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if you're listening or watching, to comment right below the video or on the podcast page,
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and just share it with us. And you know what, I think that that troll
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is like our inner critic, for the most part, because a lot of times I ask them, like, do
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you know this to be true? Has someone told you that judgment? They're like, "no, I just,
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I just know that they feel that way". Samara: Right, right. Well, yes, and I also
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really want to validate the people who have had, you know, for all of us. I mean, you
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know, it's not, it's not one or the other, you're absolutely right. Almost all of us
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had had some comment at some point in our lives often when we were way young, that really
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stayed with us, whether it's front of mind or way dormant at this point, just like asleep
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in the back of our mind, but like affecting our actions. And you know, that person, people
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like, you know, I just really don't want them to, to affect our story anymore.
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Hadar: Samara, so much insight, so many good things. I feel like I need to bring you to
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a sequel here. Samara: Yeah. Really, let's do a second part.
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Cause I feel like also there was a bunch of, we should, we're going to do our homework
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and listen back for the questions that you asked and then we got sidetracked and we didn't
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actually answer because all of your questions were super right on. And there was one about
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pitch in there, for example, that we were just about to talk about.
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And this stuff is, you know, this is why I pitched a podcast with, you know, ongoing
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episodes, not just like a 10, 10 episode thing, you know? And I said yes. Because this is
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hard for people to think about how big this topic is. But once we get into it, we realize
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everything is connected to it. Everything is connected to it.
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Hadar: Yeah. And the voice is like the most intimate thing that we have, it's before everything,
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right? Before the sounds that we make. It's maybe the thoughts are first, but the voice
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is, it's so immediate and people hear it first. So this is how you present yourself, how you
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carry yourself in the world. Samara: I would frame it also a little bit
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different, which is that it's more obvious than how we look, is how we will be judged.
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Or if you don't want me to say judged, you know, it will affect how we're treated. And
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we often, you know, not your listeners, and this is why it's like so stunning to be in
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this community, but for the public at large, we often forget that the voice is even something
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we have any, a) control over, and b) like critical mind to even think about.
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And yet, you know, when things happen, like, you know, five women run for president in
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America and none of them make it to the final round, it does start to come out in these
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think-pieces all over the place. But they're sort of like everybody thinks they're having
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their own thought, and is it about feminism, sorry, is it about sexism or isn't it?
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And so what my dream with the podcast, and what I think you're doing over here as well,
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is creating a space to say, like, this is actually all different parts of the same story.
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And how we think about our voice does matter. And it's not just this like invisible thing
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that we can't talk about because we don't have the words. You and I are finding the
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words. And we're finding them imperfectly because that's how communication works, but
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we're going for something. And I'm proud of us.
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Hadar: Samara, where can people find you? Because I'm sure everyone would want to.
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Samara: My dream is that you listen to the podcast, which you can find on any podcast
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app. I mean, it's an iHeartRadio podcast, but it's also on Apple and Spotify.
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Hadar: So it’s 'Permission to Speak'. They just have to type in 'Permission to Speak',
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I highly recommend it. Samara: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And
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then the other thing is I'm really building up my Instagram community because I want as
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many people, you know, commenting and DMing as possible so that the podcast can truly
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be for you. Hadar: So go over there and tell Samara what
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you thought about this interview and about the questions that she asked you. So go over
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there. She'll respond to you to the DMs or comments. And, that's a privilege when, you
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know, when we can do that, Samara: It's a dream truly. It's a dream.
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I mean, we're, you know, you and I are the ones who are on this screen and who've been
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thinking about this for the last 10 plus years, but every single person here shares the story
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with us, which is that we're really just trying to change the way that culture thinks about
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our voices. Hadar: Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
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Samara, thank you so much for this beautiful hour. I had so much... I've learned from you.
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Samara: I mean, needless to say, I fully geek out about this stuff, but it's because you
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know, my heart is really in it and, I can tell yours is too, and I love that. Thank
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you. Hadar: Thank you so much.
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