The Unique Love Between Humans and Dogs | Elias Weiss Friedman | TED

翻译人员: Siao Mun Lim 校对人员: Lening Xu

Cloe Shasha Brooks: Elias, thank you for joining us.

克洛伊： 埃利亚斯，谢谢你接受访问。

Elias Weiss Friedman: It's my honor to be here.

埃利亚斯： 来这里是我的荣幸。

CSB: You have a very popular platform, The Dogist.

克洛伊：你有一个非常受欢迎的平台， 《The Dogist》。

On Instagram alone, you have 7.6 million followers,

仅在Instagram上， 你就有 760 万位粉丝，

so you bring a lot of joy to a lot of people around the world.

你给世界各地的人们 带来了很多欢乐。

And in your photographing of dogs, you also tell stories in the caption.

你不仅会拍摄狗狗的照片， 还会讲述他们的故事。

So I’ve noticed a theme throughout these captions

我留意到这些描述 有一个贯穿始终的主题，

about the deep love people have for their dogs,

是关于人们对狗深厚的爱，

sometimes in ways that seem to exceed the love they might even have for people.

有时候，这种爱看起来甚至 超出他们对人类的爱。

Can you tell us about the uniqueness

你能告诉我们你所关注的

of the relationship between dogs and people that you've noticed?

狗和人之间这种独特的关系吗？

EWF: Yeah. I've photographed something like 50,000 dogs

埃利亚斯：是的。在过去的 11 年里， 我在全世界拍摄了大约 5 万只狗，

in the last 11 years, all around the world, mostly in New York.

主要是在纽约。

But one of the sentiments and stories I hear most often is this idea of, like,

我最常听到的一种情感和故事

unconditional love.

就是这种无条件的爱。

And the common thing is, like, "I've had a hard day.

最常见的是， 比如，“我过了艰难的一天。

I'm stressed out, someone cut me off in traffic.

我压力很大， 开车时有人突然超车。

And I come home,

我回到家，

and my dog is looking at me like this, and it all washes away."

我的狗就像这样看着我， 一切烦恼都消失了。”

And so that's, like, a really powerful thing.

那就像是一种非常强大的力量。

And dogs are so, you know, generous with their love.

而且，狗的爱是如此慷慨。

And they're also really generous with their eye contact.

它们对于眼神交流也非常慷慨。

You know, that's something I try and capture, this directness.

这种直接的联系， 就是我试图想捕捉的东西。

但就像你说的那样，

But like you're saying,

it's a more simple relationship than we have with people.

这是一种比人与人之间 更简单的关系。

You know, if I come home, Elsa is there to greet me,

如果我回家， 艾莎会在那里迎接我，

and she wants a belly rub.

她想要揉肚子。

And, you know, Sam, my fiancé, is also there to greet me.

我的未婚妻莎姆也在跟我打招呼。

And generally, she goes, "Hey, honey."

通常，她会说：“嘿，亲爱的。”

But maybe she's had a day or, you know, I left the towel on the bed again.

但也许她度过了辛苦一天，

又或者，我又把毛巾落在了床上。

You know, it's not as simple as it is with the dog,

你知道的， 这并不像和狗相处那样简单，

who just looks at you like this.

它只会这样看着你。

That's my dog, Elsa.

那是我的狗，艾莎。

She's a rescue from Texas.

它是来自得克萨斯州的搜救犬。

She wishes she could have been here.

它希望自己能来这里。

（笑声）

CSB: So in your travels,

克洛伊：在你的旅途中，

you've photographed dogs all over the world.

你拍过世界各地的狗。

And I've noticed, in your writing,

我留意到，在你的描述中，

that you note the differences in cultures about how people relate to dogs,

你提到根据所处的地方， 人们与狗的关系存在文化差异。

based on where you are.

So will you tell us about some of your most favorite cultures,

你能告诉我们一些 你最喜欢的，关于狗的文化吗？

around dogs?

EWF: I think there's a universal thing around dogs.

埃利亚斯： 我认为狗身上有一个普遍的现象。

That's one of the great things about my job, is I can travel anywhere.

我工作的好处之一， 就是我可以到任何地方旅行。

You know, just yesterday, I was walking around Atlanta,

就像昨天，我在亚特兰大四处走走，

meeting people and their dogs.

与人们和他们的狗见面。

But there's some trends, like in LA, the dogs are in people's cars with them,

但也有一些倾向是，比如在洛杉矶， 狗是和人一起坐在车里的，

so they spend even more time with their dogs.

所以他们花更多的时间陪伴狗。

You know, I've traveled around the world.

我环游了世界。

Like, that last image was in the UK, a dog called Tuppence, at a pub.

上一张照片是在英国的酒吧里， 一只叫塔彭斯的狗，

And I just thought that was, like, a quintessential thing

当时我觉得那是一件平常的事，

that you don't see quite as often in the States,

但你不会在美国看到这种景象，

hopefully more often.

希望能更常见。

The next picture, I think, was taken in Maine,

下一张照片， 我想是在缅因州拍摄的，

or this is in Pisa,

哦，这是在比萨，

but there's this universal thing, where I can travel anywhere,

就是这件普遍的事， 让我可以去任何地方旅行，

I could go to Antarctica and find a dog,

我可以去南极找一只狗，

and relate to someone, and connect with someone.

了解他人，与他人建立联系。

You know, if I'm photographing people,

如果我拍摄的是人物， 他们可能不会那么感兴趣。

they may not be as interested, because, like, "What's this about?"

因为他们会想， “这是怎么回事？”

But as soon as I start talking about their dog,

但只要我一开始谈论他们的狗，

他们就会说： “好，那你想要它怎么做？

they're like, "How do you want him?

Let me get the eye boogers out."

让我把它的眼屎擦一擦。”

This was kind of a funny one.

这有点滑稽。

I was in Croatia, and they often have these, like, town dogs,

我在克罗地亚的时候， 他们经常会有城镇上的狗，

that are just roaming around the entire time,

当你在外面吃晚饭的时候， 它们就一直在四处游荡。

while you're, you know, out having dinner.

And I asked a local, like, "What's this dog?"

然后我问了一个当地人， “这是什么狗？”

He’s like, “That’s Žuti,” which means “yellow” in Croatian.

他说，“那是朱堤， 在克罗地亚语中的意思是 “黄色”。

I was like trying to get a picture of Žuti, and I captured him.

我尝试拍张朱堤的照片， 然后我拍下了它。

You know, maybe he lives in one place, but he wanders around.

也许它住在一个地方， 但他四处游荡。

The whole town is his. Yes.

整个城镇都是他的。是的。

And this was in Switzerland, obviously,

显然，这是在瑞士的圣伯纳德博物馆。

at the Saint Bernard Museum.

That was a fun trip.

那是一次有趣的旅行。

And one of the things I gleaned from that trip

我从那次旅行中学到的事，

was, like, in places in Europe, in Switzerland,

是在欧洲、瑞士这些地方，

they take dogs very seriously.

他们非常认真地对待狗。

Like, to become a breeder,

比如，如果要成为一名繁育者，

you need to, like, go to a dog training class or something.

你需要去上训犬课之类的。

And I appreciate that.

我很感动。

Sort of, like, they're part of our family.

就好像它们是我们家庭的一员。

Whereas I think, in the United States,

而我认为，在美国，

sometimes, we feel like there's no rules about breeding,

有时候，我们认为繁殖没有规则，

and that's why sometimes, there's overpopulation.

这就是为什么有时侯 会出现狗过度繁殖。

CSB: Right. EWF: Yeah.

克洛伊：对。 埃利亚斯：是的。

CSB: Let's talk about service dogs for a moment.

克洛伊：让我们聊聊服务犬吧。

So anytime I go to the airport and I see a service dog,

每当我去机场，看到服务犬时，

I cry.

我都会流眼泪。

And in a good way,

那是因为感动而落泪，

because I just think it's so amazing that they can do work for us

因为我觉得他们能在 如此混乱的环境中

in such a crazy environment.

为我们工作，真是太神奇了。

But they have so many other functions, they do so much for people,

但是它们还有很多其他功能， 它们为人们做了很多事情，

and there's so much research about post-traumatic stress disorder

也有很多关于创伤后应激障碍

and other mental health conditions.

以及其他心理健康状况的研究。

I imagine you've met a lot of folks

我想你遇到了很多

who have really benefited from service dogs,

从服务犬中真正受益的人，

so we'd love to hear some stories.

所以我们很想听听这些故事。

EWF: There's all types of service dogs, like the therapy dogs at the airport,

埃利亚斯： 服务犬种类繁多，比如机场的治疗犬、

guide dogs that guide visually impaired people.

和为视障人士引导的导盲犬。

But I've done this series over the years

这些年来，我一直在和

with this organization called America's VetDogs,

美国退伍军人服务犬组织 做这个系列，

and they raise and train lab mixes for veterans,

他们养育和训练拉布拉多混血犬， 为退伍军人提供帮助，

and they often have PTSD.

而这些退伍军人通常患有 创伤后应激障碍（PTSD）。

This is a series I did with this woman named Sharon and her dog Eddie,

这是我和这位名叫莎朗的女士 以及她的狗埃迪拍摄的一系列作品，

and it sort of started as this typical, you know,

一开始有点像往常一样，

I’m meeting this woman at her house, and we’re going to chat.

我在这位女士的家见到她， 我们想要聊一聊。

And I get there and, you know,

然后当我到了那里，

she's demonstrating the different things Eddie can do.

她正在演示 埃迪能做的不同事情。

And he'll do nightmare interruption.

它会为你打断噩梦。

If she's having a nightmare,

如果她正在做噩梦，

he'll nudge her awake or pick up her keys or turn the lights on.

它会把她推醒 或者拿起她的钥匙或者开灯。

And that's all, like, typical. And she was normal.

仅此而已，就像平常的一样。 而且她很正常。

And she was an RN, she was a nurse in the Army.

她曾是一名注册护士， 也曾是陆军的一名护士。

And so she has seen people at their worst, you know,

因此，她见过人们最糟糕的状况，

and it's hard to come back and just forget that or reintegrate.

回来后很难忘记这一切 或重新融入社会。

But it wasn't until later in the day

但直到当天稍晚的时候，

that I went to the headquarters of America's VetDogs

我去美国退伍军人服务犬组织总部

and spoke with the president,

与总裁交谈，

and she was like, "I heard you met Sharon." And I was like, "Yeah, I did."

她说：“我听说你见过莎朗了。” 我说：“是的，我见了她。”

And she was like, "You know, when she came to us,

然后她说： “你知道，当她来找我们的时候，

she was nonverbal and shaking."

她无法说话，瑟瑟发抖。”

Sorry, chokes me up, sometimes, talking about this.

抱歉，有时候谈论这个会让我难过。

But, you know, Eddie, her dog, made her the way she is now,

但是，她的狗埃迪 让她变成了现在的样子，

and it's so transformative and powerful.

这个改变是深刻且充满力量的。

She was on, I'm sure, all types of drugs,

我敢肯定，她服用了各种类型的药物，

and it didn't work as well.

但效果不佳。

And she came across as someone who was articulate

她给人的印象是，

and thoughtful with her dog,

一个口齿伶俐、对狗体贴的人，

and her dog empowers her that way.

而她的狗正是以这种方式赋予她力量。

Later in the day, I met Nathan.

当天晚些时候，我遇到了内森。

Same program, America's VetDogs.

透过同样的组织， 美国退伍军人服务犬组织。

He was a retired veteran from the Air Force.

他是一名从空军退役的军人。

He was in charge of, as he called, "nukes," the nuclear division.

他负责的，是他称之为“核武”的核部门。

And as you can imagine, like, in that role, you have to be,

你可以想象，在那个岗位上，

like, perfect all the time.

你必须随时保持完美状态。

If they ask you "Are you good?"

如果他们问你 “你还好吗？”

"Yes, sir, I am good," even if you're not good.

即使你不好，也得回答： “是的，长官，我很好”，

He was describing it as he became robotic,

他描述自己变成了一个机器人，

and it dehumanized him.

这使他失去了人性。

And when he retired, it's like, how do you just reintegrate?

当他退休时， 他又该如何重新融入社会？

And it was really hard for him.

这对他来说真的很艰难。

He was completely asocial

他完全不合群，

and wouldn't leave the house,

甚至不出门，

and America's VetDogs offered him this dog and this training program.

美国退伍军人服务犬组织 为他提供了这只狗和训练计划。

And, I'm sure, you know, there are multiple factors.

而且，我敢肯定， 这之间有多种因素。

But now, he's a public speaker, like, the opposite of what he was before.

但现在，他是一位公众演讲者， 与之前相反。

And it's like, how do you pinpoint --

至于如何确认——

it's, like, hard to quantify what the power of a dog is,

狗的力量难以量化，

but it's real.

但它真实存在。

CSB: Yeah.

克洛伊：是的。

EWF: And, you know, it's amazing.

埃利亚斯：而且，这太神奇了。

So this is my buddy Angus, and, you know, he's not a veteran.

这是我的好友安格斯， 他不是退伍军人。

He's not a visually impaired person,

他也不是视障人士，

he's not someone who automatically, you would think,

他不是那种你会认为理所当然

有资格获得服务犬的人。

qualifies for a service dog,

但他是一个

but he's someone who, like,

has serious trouble with anxiety and depression

长期以来患有严重焦虑和抑郁症的人。

he’s had for a long time.

He’s on all types of drugs, which have all types of side effects.

他在服用各种类型的药物， 但这些药物有各种副作用。

And he, you know, came to me,

然后，他来找我，

he's like, "What would you think if I had a dog?"

他说：“如果我养狗，你怎么看？ 是个好主意吗？”

And I think that, you know, that'd be a great idea.

我认为，那是个好主意。

And we sort of left it at that.

我们就这样结束了这个话题。

And then, I get a call. He's like, "I'm at the airport.

之后，我接到一个电话。 他说：“我在机场。

I'm flying to Wyoming to meet a potential service dog for myself."

我要飞往怀俄明州， 去见一只可能成为我的服务犬的狗。”

You know, he found some breeder that specializes in it.

他找到了一些专门研究这种狗的繁育者。

And, you know, a month later, this dog arrives.

一个月后，这只狗来了。

And this is, like, the first moment that they'd met.

这是他们第一次见面的那一瞬间。

And, like, there's no person you just meet and stare at them

那感觉就像是， 不会有人与你第一次见面，

so deeply in their eyes --

就如此深深地凝视着彼此的眼睛。

(Laughter)

（笑声）

... and have this, like, instantly powerful effect.

然后立刻产生强烈的效果。

And you know, he loves this dog, and he’s never alone anymore.

他喜欢这只狗， 他再也不会孤单了。

And you know, he's single, and he goes on dates,

他是单身，他会去约会，

and sometimes, the dates don't work.

但有时候，约会不成功。

And he would have this, like, fear and this spiral

他会感到恐惧，

陷入一种一无所获回家的恶性循环。

of going home to nothing and not being OK and feeling rejected.

心里不舒服，感觉被拒绝。

And he was telling me, like, now, with Opal,

他告诉我，现在有了欧泊，

he doesn't have that fear anymore.

他不再有那种恐惧了。

It's like, "If it doesn't work out, you know, I'm good.

就像是，“如果这行不通， 你知道，我很好。

Opal is going to be there waiting for me, and she's probably hungry.

欧珀会在那里等着我， 而且她可能饿了。

And I'll take her for a walk."

我会带她出去散步。”

Like, it's the opposite of this spiral.

这与恶性循环恰恰相反。

CSB: It's beautiful. EWF: Yeah.

克洛伊：太美了。 埃利亚斯：是的。

EWF: And this is back at the VetDogs headquarters.

埃利亚斯：回到美国军人 服务犬组织的总部。

This is Maggie, who's a facility service dog.

这是麦琪， 它是一只设施服务犬。

So instead of having one handler, she helps with lots of people,

因此，她不只是拥有一个主人， 它可以帮助很多人，

like in a hospital or something.

比如在医院之类的地方。

And I was just having, like, a regular Tuesday,

在一个普通的星期二，

in whatever mood I was,

也不管当时我是怎么样的心情，

and taking pictures of Maggie, learning about her.

我帮麦琪拍了一些照片， 并了解它的情况。

I did, like, a nightmare interruption.

我确实有被噩梦惊醒。

And she said, "Do you want Maggie to give you a hug?

然后她说： “你想让麦琪给你一个拥抱吗？

She's a big hugger."

她是一只超爱拥抱的狗。”

And I said, "OK, yeah, sure."

然后我说：“好啊，当然好。”

And I get down on my knee,

接着我跪下，

and she comes up and just embraces me in this really, like, trained way.

它站起来用这种 非常训练有素的方式拥抱我。

It's not like a dog jumping up on you.

这不像是一只狗跳到你身上。

But instantly, I felt like my emotions,

那瞬间，我感觉自己的情绪，

like, my day was completely different.

我的一天完全不一样了。

It was, like, this powerful force of happiness,

那就像是来自幸福的强大力量，

and I didn't realize that I needed it, before.

我以前从来没有意识到 自己需要它。

But Maggie made me realize that I did need it.

但是麦琪让我意识到 我确实需要它。

CSB: That you were not in the best mood, perhaps.

克洛伊： 也许是因为你心情不太好。

EWF: You know, like, whatever mood you're in,

埃利亚斯： 你知道，无论你处于什么心情，

they're going to enhance it, you know?

那种心情是会放大的。

CSB: It's awesome.

克洛伊：太棒了。

So you grew up with a lot of dogs,

你从小就和很多狗一起长大，

and you started The Dogist --

然后创办了《The Dogist》

Yeah, there's baby Elias. So cute.

还有小埃利亚斯宝宝。 太可爱了。

And you started The Dogist in 2013,

你在 2013 年创办了《The Dogist》，

and you didn't have a dog then, because you were like,

当时的你还没有养狗，

因为你当时想， “我需要去旅行拍这些照片。”

"I need to travel and take these photos."

And so when you finally did get a dog, recently, last few years, right?

最近几年你终于养了一只狗，对吧？

How has that changed your perspective on your work?

这如何改变你对工作的看法？

EWF: Yeah. I mean, it was sort of like my little secret.

埃利亚斯：是的。 我想这有点像我的小秘密。

Like, "The Dogist doesn't have a dog."

就像是，“《The Dogist》本人没有狗。”

(Laughter)

（笑声）

And I sort of decided that I needed to travel and meet other people's dogs.

然后我决定， 我需要去旅行和认识其他人的狗。

I had dogstalgia.

我得了思狗病。

You know, I'm single, I'm not ready for a dog.

我是单身， 我还没准备好饲养一只狗。

But then during the pandemic, I decided to foster, and I met Elsa.

但在疫情期间，我决定寄养一只狗， 我遇到了艾莎。

She came up from Texas, and she was amazing.

它从得克萨斯州过来， 它实在是太棒了。

Like, she campaigned for my heart, and she won.

就像是，它为我的心而战， 而它嬴了。

(Laughs)

（笑）

And I was like, "Well, you know, it's time for me to grow up a bit."

我当时想， “嗯，我是时候我长大了。”

And, you know, I fell in love with her.

我爱上了它。

You know, a lot of people say, like, they open another chamber of your heart.

很多人说，它们像是打开了 你心中的另一个密室。

And she did, and she, you know, deepened my appreciation

它做到了， 而且它加深了

for other people's relationships with their dogs.

我对人与狗关系的理解。

You know, it's like, it's hard to know, unless you have your own dog,

除非你拥有自己的狗， 否则你会很难以理解，

like, what that feels like.

那是什么样的感觉。

You know, when I got Elsa, my fiancé and I got engaged.

当我有了艾莎后， 我和未婚妻订婚了。

CSB: Congratulations.

克洛伊：恭喜你。

EWF: You know, it was just sort of, like, a catalyst for love, you know?

埃利亚斯： 它有点像爱情的催化剂。

CSB: That's awesome.

克洛伊：那简直太棒了。

Well, may we all feel the kind of love that Elias feels with Elsa.

好，愿我们都能感受到 埃利亚斯和艾莎之间的那种爱。

Thank you so much for joining us, Elias.

埃利亚斯, 非常感谢你加入我们的访问。

EWF: Thank you.

埃利亚斯：谢谢。

(Cheers and applause)

（欢呼和掌声）