Bill Gates: The innovations we need to avoid a climate disaster | TED Countdown

390,090 views

2021-03-22 ใƒป TED


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Bill Gates: The innovations we need to avoid a climate disaster | TED Countdown

390,090 views ใƒป 2021-03-22

TED


์•„๋ž˜ ์˜๋ฌธ์ž๋ง‰์„ ๋”๋ธ”ํด๋ฆญํ•˜์‹œ๋ฉด ์˜์ƒ์ด ์žฌ์ƒ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.

00:00
Transcriber:
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๋ฒˆ์—ญ: Jaewon Yoo ๊ฒ€ํ† : JY Kang
00:17
Bruno Giussani: Hello.
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๋ธŒ๋ฃจ๋…ธ ์ง€์šฐ์‚ฌ๋‹ˆ: ์•ˆ๋…•ํ•˜์„ธ์š”,
00:18
Bill Gates calls himself an imperfect messenger on climate
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๋นŒ๊ฒŒ์ด์ธ ๋Š” ๋ถˆ์™„์ „ํ•œ ๊ธฐํ›„์˜ ๋ฉ”์‹ ์ €๋ฅผ ์ž์ฒ˜ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
00:22
because of his high carbon footprint and lifestyle.
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๊ทธ์˜ ๋†’์€ ํƒ„์†Œ ๋ฐœ์ž๊ตญ๊ณผ ์ƒํ™œ ๋ฐฉ์‹ ๋•Œ๋ฌธ์ด์ฃ .
00:26
However, he has just made a major contribution to our thinking
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ์ตœ๊ทผ ๊ทธ๋Š” ๊ธฐํ›„ ๋ณ€ํ™”์— ๊ด€ํ•œ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ์˜ ์ƒ๊ฐ์— ํฐ ๊ธฐ์—ฌ๋ฅผ ํ• 
00:30
about confronting climate change via a book,
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์ €์„œ๋ฅผ ํ•˜๋‚˜ ๋ฐœํ‘œํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
00:33
a book about decarbonising our economy and society.
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ ๊ฒฝ์ œ์™€ ์‚ฌํšŒ์˜ ํƒˆํƒ„์†Œ๋ฅผ ๋‹ค๋ฃฌ ์ฑ…์œผ๋กœ
00:37
It's an optimistic "can-do" kind of book
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โ€œํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋‹คโ€œ๋ผ๊ณ  ๋งํ•˜๋Š” ๋‚™๊ด€์ ์ธ ์‹œ๊ฐ์˜ ์ฑ…์ด๋ฉฐ,
00:40
with a strong focus on technological solutions.
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๊ธฐ์ˆ ์  ํ•ด๋ฒ•์„ ๊ฐ•์กฐํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ์ง€์š”.
00:44
He discusses the things we have, such as wind and solar power,
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๋นŒ ๊ฒŒ์ด์ธ ๋Š” ํ’๋ ฅ๊ณผ ํƒœ์–‘์—ด ๋ฐœ์ „ ๋“ฑ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ์ด๋ฏธ ๊ฐ€์ง„ ๊ฒƒ๋“ค,
00:48
the things we need to develop,
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ๋”์šฑ ๋ฐœ์ „์‹œ์ผœ์•ผ ํ•  ๊ฒƒ๋“ค๋กœ์„œ
00:50
such as carbon-free cement or carbon-free steel,
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๋ฌดํƒ„์†Œ ์‹œ๋ฉ˜ํŠธ์™€ ๋ฌดํƒ„์†Œ ๊ฐ•์ฒ ,
00:53
and long-term energy storage.
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์žฅ๊ธฐ์ ์ธ ์—๋„ˆ์ง€ ์ €์žฅ์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ๋…ผํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
00:56
And he talks about the economics of it all,
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์ด ๋ชจ๋“  ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์˜ ๊ฒฝ์ œ์ ์ธ ๋ฉด์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ์ด์•ผ๊ธฐํ•˜๋ฉฐ,
00:59
introducing the concept of green premium.
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๊ทธ๋ฆฐ ํ”„๋ฆฌ๋ฏธ์—„์ด๋ผ๋Š” ๊ฐœ๋…์„ ๋„์ž…ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
01:02
The gist of the book, and really I'm simplifying here a lot,
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๊ฐ„๋‹จํ•˜๊ฒŒ ์„ค๋ช…ํ•˜์ž๋ฉด, ์ด ์ฑ…์˜ ํฌ์ธํŠธ๋Š” ๋‹ค์Œ๊ณผ ๊ฐ™์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
01:06
is that fighting climate change is going to be hard,
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๊ธฐํ›„ ๋ณ€ํ™”์— ๋งž์„œ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์€ ๊ฒฐ์ฝ” ์‰ฝ์ง€ ์•Š๊ฒ ์ง€๋งŒ,
01:10
but it's possible, we can do it.
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๋ถ„๋ช…ํžˆ ๊ฐ€๋Šฅํ•œ ์ผ์ด๊ณ , ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
01:12
There is a pathway to a clean and prosperous future for all.
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๋ชจ๋‘๋ฅผ ์œ„ํ•œ, ๊นจ๋—ํ•˜๋ฉด์„œ๋„ ๋ฒˆ์˜๋œ ๋ฏธ๋ž˜๋กœ ๊ฐˆ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š” ๊ธธ์ด ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
01:17
So we want to unpack some of that with the author of the book.
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์ฑ…์˜ ์ €์ž์™€ ํ•จ๊ป˜ ์ด์•ผ๊ธฐ๋ฅผ ํ’€์–ด๋‚˜๊ฐ€ ๋ณด๋„๋ก ํ•˜์ฃ .
01:20
Bill Gates, welcome back to TED.
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๋นŒ ๊ฒŒ์ด์ธ  ์”จ, TED์— ๋Œ์•„์˜จ ๊ฒƒ์„ ํ™˜์˜ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
01:22
Bill Gates: Thank you.
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๋นŒ ๊ฒŒ์ด์ธ : ๊ฐ์‚ฌํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
01:23
Giussani: Bill, I would like to start where you start,
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์ง€์šฐ์‚ฌ๋‹ˆ: ๋นŒ, ์ฑ…์˜ ๋„์ž…๋ถ€์ธ ์ œ๋ชฉ์—์„œ
01:26
from the title of the book.
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์ด์•ผ๊ธฐ๋ฅผ ์‹œ์ž‘ํ•˜๊ณ ์ž ํ•ด์š”.
01:27
"How to Avoid a Climate Disaster,"
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โ€œ๊ธฐํ›„ ์žฌ๋‚œ์„ ํ”ผํ•˜๋Š” ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•โ€
01:29
which, of course, presumes
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์ด ์ œ๋ชฉ์˜ ์˜๋ฏธ๋Š”
01:31
that we are heading towards a climate disaster
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๋‹น์—ฐํžˆ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ๊ธฐํ›„ ์žฌ์•™์œผ๋กœ ํ–ฅํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ์Œ์„ ๋‚ดํฌํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ ๊ฐ™๋„ค์š”.
01:33
if we don't act differently.
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ ํ–‰๋™์„ ๋ฐ”๊พธ์ง€ ์•Š๋Š”๋‹ค๋ฉด์š”.
01:35
So what is the single most important thing we must do
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๊ทธ๋ ‡๋‹ค๋ฉด ๊ธฐํ›„ ์žฌ๋‚œ์„ ํ”ผํ•˜๊ธฐ ์œ„ํ•ด ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š”
01:38
to avoid a climate disaster?
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๊ฐ€์žฅ ์ค‘์š”ํ•œ ๊ฒƒ์ด ๋ฌด์—‡์ผ๊นŒ์š”?
01:40
Gates: Well, the greenhouse gases we put into the atmosphere,
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๊ฒŒ์ด์ธ : ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ๋Œ€๊ธฐ ์ค‘์œผ๋กœ ๋ฐฉ์ถœํ•˜๋Š” ์˜จ์‹ค ๊ฐ€์Šค๋“ค,
01:44
particularly CO2,
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ํŠนํžˆ ์ด์‚ฐํ™”ํƒ„์†Œ๋Š”
01:45
stay there for thousands of years.
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์ˆ˜์ฒœ ๋…„ ๋™์•ˆ ๊ทธ๊ณณ์— ๋จธ๋ฌผ๋Ÿฌ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
01:47
And so it's really the sum of all those emissions
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฌ๋‹ˆ๊นŒ ๊ฒฐ๊ตญ ๊ทธ ๋ชจ๋“  ๋ฐฐ์ถœ๋Ÿ‰์ด ๋”ํ•ด์ ธ์„œ
01:52
are forcing the temperature higher and higher,
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์˜จ๋„๋ฅผ ์ ์  ๋” ๋†’์—ฌ
01:55
which will have disastrous effects.
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์žฌ์•™์ ์ธ ๊ฒฐ๊ณผ๋ฅผ ๋‚ณ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
01:58
And so we have to take these emissions,
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ํ•ด์•ผ ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฑด,
02:00
which are presently over 51 billion tons per year
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ํ˜„์žฌ ์—ฐ๊ฐ„ 510์–ต ํ†ค์ด ๋„˜๋Š” ๋ฐฐ์ถœ๋Ÿ‰์„
02:06
and drive those all the way down to zero.
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0์œผ๋กœ ๋Œ์–ด๋‚ด๋ฆฌ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
02:09
And that's when the temperature will stop increasing
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๊ทธ๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ํ•ด์•ผ๋งŒ ์˜จ๋„ ์ƒ์Šน์„ ๋ฉˆ์ถ”๊ณ 
02:13
and the disastrous weather events won't get worse and worse.
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์žฌ์•™์ ์ธ ๊ธฐ์ƒ ์ƒํ™ฉ๋“ค์ด ๊ณ„์†ํ•˜์—ฌ ์•…ํ™”๋˜์ง€ ์•Š์„ ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
02:18
So it's pretty demanding.
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๊ฝค ๊นŒ๋‹ค๋กœ์šด ์ผ์ด์ฃ .
02:19
It's not a 50 percent reduction.
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๋ฐ˜์œผ๋กœ ์ค„์ด์ž๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ด ์•„๋‹™๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
02:21
It's all the way down to zero.
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0์œผ๋กœ ๋Œ์–ด๋‚ด๋ฆฌ๋Š” ๊ฑฐ์˜ˆ์š”.
02:25
Giussani: Now, 51 billion is a big number.
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์ง€์šฐ์‚ฌ๋‹ˆ: 510์–ต ํ†ค์€ ์—„์ฒญ๋‚˜๋„ค์š”.
02:27
It's difficult to register, to understand.
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๋‹จ๋ฒˆ์— ์ดํ•ดํ•˜๊ธฐ ์–ด๋ ค์šด ์ˆซ์ž์˜ˆ์š”.
02:30
Help us visualize the scale of the problem.
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๊ทธ ๋ฌธ์ œ์˜ ๊ทœ๋ชจ๋ฅผ ํŒŒ์•…ํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋„๋ก ๋„์™€์ฃผ์„ธ์š”.
02:35
Gates: Well, the key is to understand all the different sources.
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๊ฒŒ์ด์ธ : ์šฐ์„  ๋‹ค์–‘ํ•œ ํƒ„์†Œ ๋ฐฐ์ถœ ๊ฒฝ๋กœ๋ฅผ ๋ชจ๋‘ ์ดํ•ดํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ด ์ค‘์š”ํ•ด์š”.
02:38
And people are mostly aware of the production of electricity
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๊ฑฐ์˜ ๋ชจ๋“  ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์ด ์ „๊ธฐ์˜ ๊ณต๊ธ‰์› ์ค‘
02:44
with natural gas and coal as being a big source.
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์ฒœ์—ฐ ๊ฐ€์Šค์™€ ์„ํƒ„์ด ํฐ ๋ถ€๋ถ„์„ ์ฐจ์ง€ํ•œ๋‹ค๊ณ  ์•Œ๊ณ  ์žˆ์ฃ .
02:47
That's about 27 percent.
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์€ 27%๋ฐ–์— ๋˜์ง€ ์•Š์•„์š”.
02:50
And they're somewhat aware of transportation,
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๋˜ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์€ ์Šน์šฉ์ฐจ๋ฅผ ํฌํ•จํ•œ
02:53
including passenger cars.
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๊ตํ†ต์ˆ˜๋‹จ์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ์ธ์ง€ํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
02:56
Passenger cars are seven percent and transportation overall is 16 percent.
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์Šน์šฉ์ฐจ๋Š” 7%, ๊ตํ†ต์ˆ˜๋‹จ ์ „์ฒด๋Š” 16%์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
03:01
They have far less awareness of the other three segments.
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์„ธ ๊ฐ€์ง€๊ฐ€ ๋” ์žˆ๋Š”๋ฐ ๊ฑฐ์˜ ์•Œ๋ ค์ ธ ์žˆ์ง€ ์•Š์ง€์š”.
03:05
Agriculture, which is 19 percent,
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๋†์—…์ด 19%๋ฅผ ์ฐจ์ง€ํ•˜๊ณ ,
03:09
heating and cooling buildings,
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์ฒœ์—ฐ ๊ฐ€์Šค์˜ ์‚ฌ์šฉ์„ ํฌํ•จํ•œ
03:11
including using natural gas, are seven percent.
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๊ฑด๋ฌผ์˜ ๋ƒ‰๋‚œ๋ฐฉ์ด 7%,
03:14
And then, sadly, the biggest segment of all, manufacturing,
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ๋งˆ์ง€๋ง‰์œผ๋กœ, ์Šฌํ”„๊ฒŒ๋„ ๊ฐ€์žฅ ํฐ ๋ถ€๋ถ„์€
๊ฐ•์ฒ ๊ณผ ์‹œ๋ฉ˜ํŠธ๋ฅผ ์‚ฌ์šฉํ•˜๋Š” ์ œ์กฐ์—…์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
03:19
including steel and cement.
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03:22
People are least aware of that one.
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์ œ์กฐ์—…์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ ๊ฒฝ๊ฐ์‹ฌ์ด ์ผ๋ฐ˜์ ์œผ๋กœ ๊ฐ€์žฅ ๋‚ฎ์•„์š”.
03:25
And in fact, that one is the most difficult for us to solve.
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์‚ฌ์‹ค์€ ๊ฐ€์žฅ ํ•ด๊ฒฐ์ด ์–ด๋ ค์šด ๋ถ€๋ถ„์ธ๋ฐ ๋ง์ด์ฃ .
03:30
The size of all the steel plants,
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๋ชจ๋“  ์ฒ ๊ฐ•๊ณต์žฅ, ์‹œ๋ฉ˜ํŠธ ๊ณต์žฅ์˜ ๊ทœ๋ชจ,
03:32
cement plants, paper, plastic,
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์ข…์ด, ํ”Œ๋ผ์Šคํ‹ฑ ๋“ฑ
03:36
the industrial economy is gigantic.
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์‚ฐ์—… ๊ฒฝ์ œ์˜ ๊ทœ๋ชจ๋Š” ์–ด๋งˆ์–ด๋งˆํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
03:38
And we're asking that to be changed over in this 30-year period
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ๋ฐ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์ด ๋ชจ๋“  ๊ฒŒ 30๋…„ ๋‚ด์— ๋ฐ”๋€Œ๊ธฐ๋ฅผ ๋ฐ”๋ผ๊ณ  ์žˆ์–ด์š”.
03:44
when we don't even know how to make that change right now.
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๊ทธ ๋ณ€ํ™”๋ฅผ ๋งŒ๋“œ๋Š” ๋ฒ•์กฐ์ฐจ ๋ชจ๋ฅด๋ฉด์„œ ๋ง์ด์ฃ .
03:48
Giussani: So your core argument, and really, here Iโ€™m simplifying,
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์ง€์šฐ์‚ฌ๋‹ˆ: ๊ทธ ๋ง์˜ ํ•ต์‹ฌ์„ ์š”์•ฝํ•˜์ž๋ฉด,
03:51
is that basically we need to clean up all of that, right?
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๊ฒฐ๊ตญ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ๊ทธ ๋ชจ๋“  ๊ฒƒ์„ ๊นจ๋—ํ•˜๊ฒŒ ๋งŒ๋“ค์–ด์•ผ ํ•œ๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ผ๊นŒ์š”?
03:54
The way we make things, we grow things,
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ๋ฌด์–ธ๊ฐ€๋ฅผ ์ƒ์‚ฐํ•˜๋Š” ๋ฒ•, ์žฌ๋ฐฐํ•˜๋Š” ๋ฒ•,
03:55
we get around and power our economy.
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์›€์ง์ด๋Š” ๋ฒ•, ๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ๊ฒฝ์ œ์— ๋™๋ ฅ์„ ๊ณต๊ธ‰ํ•˜๋Š” ๋ฒ• ๋“ฑ์ด์š”.
03:58
And so to do that, we need to get to a point
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ๊ทธ๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ํ•˜๊ธฐ ์œ„ํ•ด์„ ,
04:00
where green energy is as cheap as fossil fuels,
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๊ทธ๋ฆฐ ์—๋„ˆ์ง€๊ฐ€ ํ™”์„ ์—ฐ๋ฃŒ๋งŒํผ ์ €๋ ดํ•ด์ ธ์•ผ ํ•˜๋ฉฐ,
04:04
and new materials, clean materials, are as cheap as current materials.
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์ƒˆ๋กญ๊ณ  ๊นจ๋—ํ•œ ์†Œ์žฌ์˜ ๊ฐ€๊ฒฉ๋„ ๊ทธ๋งŒํผ ์ €๋ ดํ•ด์ ธ์•ผ ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฑฐ๊ฒ ์ฃ .
04:08
And you call that "eliminating the green premium."
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ๋‹น์‹ ์€ ๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์„ โ€œ๊ทธ๋ฆฐ ํ”„๋ฆฌ๋ฏธ์—„์„ ์—†์• ๋Š” ๊ฒƒโ€œ์ด๋ผ ์นญํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ด๊ณ ์š”.
04:11
So to start, tell us what you mean by green premium.
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๊ทธ๋ฆฐ ํ”„๋ฆฌ๋ฏธ์—„์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ๋จผ์ € ์„ค๋ช…ํ•ด์ฃผ์‹œ๋ฉด ์ข‹์„ ๊ฒƒ ๊ฐ™์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
04:15
Gates: Yeah, so the green premium varies from emission sources.
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๊ฒŒ์ด์ธ : ๊ทธ๋ฆฐ ํ”„๋ฆฌ๋ฏธ์—„์€ ๋ฐฐ์ถœ์›์— ๋”ฐ๋ผ ๋‹ค๋ฆ…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
04:21
It's the cost to buy that product
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๋ฐฐ์ถœ์ด ์—†๋Š” ์ƒํ™ฉ์—์„œ ๊ทธ ์ œํ’ˆ์„ ์‚ฌ๋Š” ๋ฐ ๋“œ๋Š” ๋น„์šฉ๊ณผ
04:24
where there's been no emissions versus the cost we have today.
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ํ˜„์žฌ ๋น„์šฉ์„ ๋น„๊ตํ•œ ์ˆ˜์น˜์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
04:30
And so for an electric car,
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์ „๊ธฐ์ฐจ์˜ ๊ฒฝ์šฐ,
04:32
the green premium is reasonably modest.
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๊ทธ๋ฆฐ ํ”„๋ฆฌ๋ฏธ์—„์ด ์ ๋‹นํ•˜๋‹ค๊ณ  ๋ณผ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์ฃ .
04:34
You pay a little more upfront,
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์„ ๋ถˆ๋กœ ์กฐ๊ธˆ ๋” ๋งŽ์€ ๋ˆ์„ ์ง€๊ธ‰ํ•˜๋Š” ๋Œ€์‹ 
04:36
you save a bit on the maintenance and gasoline, you give up some range,
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์œ ์ง€ ๋ณด์ˆ˜์™€ ํœ˜๋ฐœ์œ  ๋น„์šฉ์„ ์ ˆ์•ฝํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๊ณ ์š”,
๋ฌผ๋ก  ๊ธด ์ถฉ์ „ ์‹œ๊ฐ„์ฒ˜๋Ÿผ ์กฐ๊ธˆ ๋ถˆํŽธํ•œ ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์ด ์žˆ๊ฒ ์ฃ .
04:41
you have a longer charging time.
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04:43
But over the next 15 years,
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ 15๋…„ ํ›„์—๋Š”
04:45
because the volume is there and the R and D is being done,
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์ง€๊ธˆ ํ–‰ํ•ด์ง€๋Š” ์—ฐ๊ตฌ ๊ฐœ๋ฐœ์„ ๊ณ ๋ คํ–ˆ์„ ๋•Œ
04:49
we can expect that the electric car will be preferable.
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์ „๊ธฐ์ฐจ๊ฐ€ ์„ ํ˜ธ๋  ๊ฒƒ์ž„์„ ์˜ˆ์ธกํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์–ด์š”.
04:54
It won't cost more.
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์ „๊ธฐ์ฐจ๊ฐ€ ๋” ๋น„์‹ธ์ง€ ์•Š์„ ๊ฒƒ์ด๋ฉฐ,
04:55
It will have a much higher range.
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์ ์œ  ๋น„์ค‘๋„ ๋†’์•„์งˆ ๊ฑฐ์˜ˆ์š”.
04:59
And so that green premium that today is about 15 percent
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์ฆ‰, ์ง€๊ธˆ ์•ฝ 15%์ธ ๊ทธ๋ฆฐ ํ”„๋ฆฌ๋ฏธ์—„์ด
05:03
is headed to be zero
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0์„ ํ–ฅํ•ด ๋‹ฌ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์žˆ๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
05:05
even without any government subsidies.
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์ •๋ถ€ ๋ณด์กฐ๊ธˆ์„ ๋ฐ˜์˜ํ•˜์ง€ ์•Š๊ณ ๋„์š”.
05:08
And so that's magic.
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๋งˆ๋ฒ•๊ณผ๋„ ๊ฐ™์€ ์ผ์ด์ฃ .
05:09
That's exactly what we need to do for every other category.
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๋‚˜๋จธ์ง€ ๋ชจ๋“  ๋ถ„์•ผ์—์„œ๋„ ์ผ์–ด๋‚˜์•ผ ํ•˜๋Š” ์ผ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
05:14
Now, an area like cement,
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๋ฐ˜๋ฉด์— ์‹œ๋ฉ˜ํŠธ ๊ฐ™์€ ๋ถ„์•ผ๋Š”
05:15
where we haven't really gotten started yet,
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์•„์ง ์‹œ์ž‘ํ–ˆ๋‹ค๊ณ  ๋ณด๊ธฐ ํž˜๋“ค์ฃ .
05:18
the green premium today is almost double the price.
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์‹œ๋ฉ˜ํŠธ์˜ ๊ทธ๋ฆฐ ํ”„๋ฆฌ๋ฏธ์—„์€ ๊ฐ€๊ฒฉ์˜ ์•ฝ ๋‘ ๋ฐฐ ์ •๋„์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
05:22
That is, you pay 125 dollars for a ton of cement today
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๊ทธ ๋ง์€, ์‹œ๋ฉ˜ํŠธ 1ํ†ค์ด 125๋‹ฌ๋Ÿฌ ์ •๋„์ธ๋ฐ,
05:27
but it would be almost double that if you insisted that it be green cement.
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์นœํ™˜๊ฒฝ ์‹œ๋ฉ˜ํŠธ๋กœ ๋ฐ”๊พธ๋ฉด ๊ทธ๋ฆฐ ํ”„๋ฆฌ๋ฏธ์—„์ด ๋‘ ๋ฐฐ๊ฐ€ ๋  ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
05:32
And so the way I think of this is in 2050
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์ €๋Š” ์ด๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ๋ด…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
2050๋…„์ด ๋˜๋ฉด ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์ธ๋„์—๊ฒŒ ์ด๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ์ด์•ผ๊ธฐํ•  ๊ฑฐ์˜ˆ์š”.
05:38
we'll be talking to India and saying to them,
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05:41
"Please use the green products
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โ€œ์นœํ™˜๊ฒฝ ์†Œ์žฌ๋ฅผ ์จ ์ฃผ์„ธ์š”.โ€
05:44
as you're building basic shelter, you know, simple air conditioning,"
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๊ธฐ๋ณธ์ ์œผ๋กœ ์ง‘์„ ์ง€์„ ๋•Œ๋Š” ์ ์–ด๋„ ์—์–ด์ปจ์ด ํ•„์š”ํ•˜์ฃ .
05:49
which they'll need because of the heat increase
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์™œ๋ƒํ•˜๋ฉด ๋ฐค์— ์•„์ด๋“ค ๊ณต๋ถ€ ์กฐ๋ช…์œผ๋กœ๋„
05:51
or lighting at night for students.
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์˜จ๋„๊ฐ€ ์˜ฌ๋ผ๊ฐ€๋‹ˆ๊นŒ์š”.
05:54
And unless we're willing to subsidize it or the price is very low,
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ๋ฐ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ๋ณด์กฐ๊ธˆ์„ ์ค€๋‹ค๊ฑฐ๋‚˜ ๊ฐ€๊ฒฉ ์ž์ฒด๊ฐ€ ๋‚ฎ์ง€ ์•Š์œผ๋ฉด
06:00
they'll say, "No, this is a problem that the rich countries created,
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๊ทธ๋“ค์€ ๊ทธ๋Ÿด ์ˆ˜ ์—†๋‹ค๊ณ  ํ•  ๊ฑฐ์˜ˆ์š”.
์ด๊ฑด ๋ถ€์œ ํ•œ ๊ตญ๊ฐ€๋“ค์ด ๋งŒ๋“  ๋ฌธ์ œ๊ณ ,
06:05
that India is suffering from
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์ธ๋„๋Š” ๊ทธ์ € ํ”ผํ•ด๋ฅผ ๋ณด๋Š” ๊ฒƒ ๋ฟ์ด๋‹ˆ ๋‹น์‹ ๋“ค์ด ํ•ด๊ฒฐํ•˜๋ผ๊ณ  ํ•˜๊ฒ ์ฃ .
06:07
and you need to take care of it."
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06:11
So only by bringing that green premium down very dramatically,
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๊ทธ ๋ง์ธ์ฆ‰์Šจ, ๊ทธ๋ฆฐ ํ”„๋ฆฌ๋ฏธ์—„์„ ๊ทน์ ์œผ๋กœ ์ธํ•˜ํ•ด์•ผ ํ•œ๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
06:14
about 95 percent across all categories,
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๋ชจ๋“  ๋ถ„์•ผ์— 95% ์ •๋„๊นŒ์ง€์š”.
06:18
will that conversation go well
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๊ทธ๋ž˜์•ผ๋งŒ ์ด ๋Œ€ํ™”๊ฐ€ ์ˆœ์กฐ๋กญ๊ฒŒ ์ง„ํ–‰๋˜๊ณ 
06:21
so that India can make that shift.
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์ธ๋„๊ฐ€ ๋ณ€ํ™”๋ฅผ ์œ„ํ•œ ๋…ธ๋ ฅ์„ ํ•  ๊ฑฐ์˜ˆ์š”.
06:24
And so the key thing here
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์—ฌ๊ธฐ์„œ ์ค‘์š”ํ•œ ๊ฑด,
06:26
is that the US's responsibility is not just to zero out its emissions.
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๋ฏธ๊ตญ์ด ๋ฐฐ์ถœ๋Ÿ‰์„ 0์œผ๋กœ ์ค„์ธ๋‹ค๊ณ  ์ฑ…์ž„์ด ๋๋‚˜๋Š” ๊ฑด ์•„๋‹ˆ๋ผ๋Š” ๊ฑฐ์˜ˆ์š”.
06:31
That's a very hard thing,
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๊ทธ๋งˆ์ €๋„ ์•„์ฃผ ์–ด๋ ค์šด ์ผ์ด์ฃ .
06:33
but we're only 15 percent.
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๋ฏธ๊ตญ์˜ ๋ฐฐ์ถœ๋Ÿ‰์€ 15%์— ๋ถˆ๊ณผํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
06:34
Unless we, through our power of innovation,
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ํ˜์‹ ์˜ ํž˜์œผ๋กœ
06:38
make it so cheap
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๊ฐ€๊ฒฉ์„ ๊ทน์ ์œผ๋กœ ๋‚ด๋ฆฌ๊ณ 
06:40
for all countries to switch all categories,
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๋ชจ๋“  ๋‚˜๋ผ๊ฐ€ ๋ชจ๋“  ์‚ฐ์—… ๋ถ„์•ผ๋ฅผ ๋ฐ”๊พธ์ง€ ์•Š๋Š” ํ•œ
06:45
then we simply aren't going to get there.
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0์œผ๋กœ ๊ฐˆ ์ˆ˜ ์—†๋Š” ๊ฑฐ์ฃ .
06:47
And so the US really has to step up
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๊ทธ๋ ‡๊ธฐ์— ๋ฏธ๊ตญ์ด ๋‚˜์„œ์„œ
06:52
and use all of this innovative capacity every year for the next 30 years.
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ํ–ฅํ›„ 30๋…„ ๋‚ด์— ๊ธฐ์ˆ  ํ˜์‹ ์— ๊ด€ํ•œ ๋ชจ๋“  ๋Šฅ๋ ฅ์„ ๋™์›ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ด ํ•„์š”ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
06:58
Giussani: What what needs to happen
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์ง€์šฐ์‚ฌ๋‹ˆ: ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ํ•ด์•ผ
07:00
in order for these breakthroughs to actually occur?
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์ด๋Ÿฌํ•œ ํ˜์‹ ์ด ์‹ค์ œ๋กœ ์ผ์–ด๋‚ ๊นŒ์š”?
07:03
Who are the players who need to come together?
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์–ด๋–ค ์ฃผ์ฒด๋“ค์ด ํž˜์„ ํ•ฉ์ณ์•ผ ํ• ๊นŒ์š”?
07:07
Gates: Well, innovation usually happens at a pace of its own.
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๊ฒŒ์ด์ธ : ํ†ต์ƒ์ ์œผ๋กœ ํ˜์‹ ์˜ ์†๋„๋ฅผ ๋งˆ์Œ๋Œ€๋กœ ์กฐ์ข…ํ•˜๊ธด ํž˜๋“ค์ฃ .
07:12
Here we have this deadline, 2050.
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์ €ํฌ์—๊ฒŒ๋Š” 2050๋…„์ด๋ผ๋Š” ์‹œํ•œ์ด ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
07:15
And so we have to do everything we can to accelerate it.
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ํ˜์‹ ์„ ์ตœ๋Œ€ํ•œ ์ด‰์ง„ํ•˜๊ธฐ ์œ„ํ•ด ํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š” ๋ชจ๋“  ๊ฑธ ํ•ด์•ผ ํ•ด์š”.
07:18
We need to raise the R and D budgets in these areas.
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์ด ๋ถ„์•ผ๋“ค์˜ ์—ฐ๊ตฌ๊ฐœ๋ฐœ ์˜ˆ์‚ฐ์„ ๋Š˜๋ ค์•ผ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
07:23
In 2015 I organized, along with President Hollande and Obama,
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2015๋…„์— ์˜ฌ๋ž‘๋“œ ๋Œ€ํ†ต๋ น, ์˜ค๋ฐ”๋งˆ ๋Œ€ํ†ต๋ น๊ณผ ํ•จ๊ป˜
07:28
a side event to the Paris climate talks
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ํŒŒ๋ฆฌ ๊ธฐํ›„ ํšŒ๋‹ด์˜ ๋ถ€๋Œ€ ํ–‰์‚ฌ๋ฅผ ์ค€๋น„ํ–ˆ์–ด์š”.
07:31
where what Prime Minister Modi had labeled "mission innovation"
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๋‹น์‹œ์— ๋ชจ๋”” ์ด๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ โ€œ์‚ฌ๋ช… ํ˜์‹ โ€œ์ด๋ผ๊ณ  ์นญํ•œ ๊ฒƒ์€
07:36
was a commitment to double R and D budgets over a five-year period.
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์—ฐ๊ตฌ ๊ฐœ๋ฐœ ์˜ˆ์‚ฐ์„ 5๋…„ ๋™์•ˆ ๋‘ ๋ฐฐ๋กœ ๋Š˜๋ฆฌ๊ฒ ๋‹ค๋Š” ์•ฝ์†์ด์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
07:42
And all the big countries came in and made that pledge.
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ํฐ ๋‚˜๋ผ๋“ค ๋ชจ๋‘๊ฐ€ ํ•ด๋‹น ๊ณต์•ฝ์„ ํ–ˆ์ฃ .
07:47
Then we need lots of smart people,
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๋˜ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ๋˜‘๋˜‘ํ•œ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์ด ๋งŽ์ด ํ•„์š”ํ•ด์š”.
07:49
who, instead of working on other problems,
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๋˜‘๋˜‘ํ•œ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์ด ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ๋ฌธ์ œ๋ฅผ ๋‹ค๋ฃจ๊ธฐ๋ณด๋‹ค
07:52
are encouraged to work on these problems.
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์ด ๋ฌธ์ œ๋ฅผ ํ•ด๊ฒฐํ•˜๋„๋ก ๋…๋ คํ•ด์•ผ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
07:55
So coming up with funding for them is very, very important.
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๊ทธ๋“ค์„ ์œ„ํ•œ ์ž๊ธˆ์„ ๋งˆ๋ จํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์€ ์•„์ฃผ ์ค‘์š”ํ•ด์š”.
08:00
I'm doing some of that through what I call Breakthrough Energy Fellows.
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์ €๋Š” ๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์„ โ€œํ˜์‹  ์—๋„ˆ์ง€ ๋™๋ฃŒ๋“คโ€œ์ด๋ผ๋Š” ํ”„๋กœ๊ทธ๋žจ์„ ํ†ตํ•ด ์‹ค์ฒœํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:04
We need high-risk capital to invest in these companies,
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์ด ๊ธฐ์—…๋“ค์„ ์œ„ํ•œ ๊ณ ์œ„ํ—˜ ํˆฌ์ž ์ž๋ณธ์ด ํ•„์š”ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:08
even though the risks are very, very high.
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ํˆฌ์ž ์œ„ํ—˜ ๋ถ€๋‹ด์ด ๋งค์šฐ ํฌ์ง€๋งŒ ๋ง์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:12
And that's --
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์€ --
08:14
There is now --
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์ง€๊ธˆ --
08:16
Breakthrough Energy Ventures is one group doing that
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ํ˜์‹  ์—๋„ˆ์ง€ ๋ฒค์ฒ˜ ๊ทธ๋ฃน์ด ๊ทธ ์ผ์„ ํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ๊ณ 
08:19
and drawing lots of other people in.
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๋‹ค๋ฅธ ๋งŽ์€ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์„ ๋Œ์–ด๋“ค์ด๊ณ  ์žˆ์–ด์š”.
08:21
But then the most difficult thing is
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ๋ฐ ๊ฐ€์žฅ ์–ด๋ ค์šด ์ผ์€
08:23
we actually need markets for these products
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์ด ์ œํ’ˆ๋“ค๋„ ์‹ค์ œ๋กœ ์‹œ์žฅ์„ ํ•„์š”๋กœ ํ•˜๋Š”๋ฐ,
08:26
even when they start out being more expensive.
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๊ฐ€๊ฒฉ์ด ๋†’์€ ์ƒํ™ฉ์—์„œ ์ง„์ถœ์„ ํ•œ๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ฑฐ์ฃ .
08:30
And that's what I call Catalyst,
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์ €๋Š” ์ด๊ฒƒ์„ โ€˜์ด‰๋งค์ œโ€™๋ผ๊ณ  ๋ถ€๋ฆ…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:31
organizing the buying power of consumers and companies and governments
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์ด‰๋งค์ œ๋Š” ์†Œ๋น„์ž, ๊ธฐ์—… ๋ฐ ์ •๋ถ€์˜ ๊ตฌ๋งค๋ ฅ์„ ์กฐ์ •ํ•˜์—ฌ
08:38
so that we get on the learning curve,
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ํ•™์Šต ํšจ๊ณผ๋ฅผ ๋†’์ด๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:40
get the scale going up,
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08:42
like we did with solar and wind across all these categories.
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ํƒœ์–‘, ํ’๋ ฅ ์—๋„ˆ์ง€์— ๊ทธ๋žฌ๋˜ ๊ฒƒ์ฒ˜๋Ÿผ ๋ชจ๋“  ๋ถ„์•ผ์— ๊ทธ๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ํ•ด์•ผ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
08:47
So it's both supply of innovation and demand for the green products.
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๊ฒฐ๊ตญ ๋‘ ๊ฐ€์ง€์ธ ๊ฒƒ์ด์ฃ .
ํ˜์‹ ์˜ ๊ณต๊ธ‰ ๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์นœํ™˜๊ฒฝ ์ œํ’ˆ์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ ์ˆ˜์š”,
08:54
That's the combination
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๊ทธ ๋‘˜์˜ ์กฐํ•ฉ์„ ํ†ตํ•ด
08:57
that can start us to make this change to the infrastructure
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๊ฐœ์„ ํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์„ ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
๋ฌผ์งˆ ๊ฒฝ์ œ ์ „์ฒด์˜ ์ธํ”„๋ผ๋ฅผ ๋ฐ”๊ฟ€ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์ฃ .
09:03
of the entire physical economy.
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09:05
Giussani: In terms of funding all this,
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์ง€์šฐ์‚ฌ๋‹ˆ: ์ž๊ธˆ ์ง€์›์˜ ์ธก๋ฉด์—์„œ
09:07
the financial system as a whole right now
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ํ˜„์žฌ ๊ธˆ์œต ์‹œ์Šคํ…œ์€ ๊ธฐ๋ณธ์ ์œผ๋กœ
09:10
is essentially funding expansion of fossil fuels
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ํ™”์„์—ฐ๋ฃŒ์˜ ํ™•์žฅ์„ ์œ„ํ•œ ์ž๊ธˆ์„ ๋Œ€๋Š” ๊ฒƒ๊ณผ ๋งˆ์ฐฌ๊ฐ€์ง€๊ฒ ๊ตฐ์š”.
09:14
consistent with three degrees Celsius increase in global heating.
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๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์€ ๊ฒฐ๊ตญ ์ง€๊ตฌ ์˜จ๋„๋ฅผ 3๋„ ์ƒ์Šน์‹œํ‚ค๋Š” ๊ฒƒ๊ณผ ์ผ์น˜ํ•˜๊ณ ์š”.
09:19
What do you say to the Finance Committee,
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์ƒ์›์˜ ์žฌ์ • ์œ„์›ํšŒ์—๊ฒŒ
09:21
beyond the venture capital,
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๋ฒค์ฒ˜ ์บํ”ผํ„ธ์„ ๋„˜์–ด์„œ
09:23
about the need to think and act differently?
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์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ๋‹ค๋ฅด๊ฒŒ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜๊ณ  ํ–‰๋™ํ•˜๋ผ๊ณ  ๋ง์”€ํ•˜์‹œ๊ฒ ์Šต๋‹ˆ๊นŒ?
09:27
Gates: Well, if you look at the interest rates for a solar field
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๊ฒŒ์ด์ธ : ํƒœ์–‘ ์—๋„ˆ์ง€ ๋ถ„์•ผ์˜ ๊ธˆ๋ฆฌ๋ฅผ ์‚ดํŽด๋ณด๋ฉด,
09:30
versus any other type of investments, it's not lower.
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๋‹ค๋ฅธ ์œ ํ˜•์˜ ํˆฌ์ž์™€ ๋น„๊ตํ–ˆ์„ ๋•Œ ๊ทธ๋ฆฌ ๋‚ฎ์€ ๊ฑด ์•„๋‹ˆ์—์š”.
09:34
You know, money is very fungible.
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์•„์‹œ๋‹ค์‹œํ”ผ, ๋ˆ์€ ๋งค์šฐ ์‰ฝ๊ฒŒ ํผ์ง‘๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
09:36
It's going to, you know, different projects.
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๋‹ค์–‘ํ•œ ํ”„๋กœ์ ํŠธ๋“ค๋กœ ํ–ฅํ•˜์ฃ .
09:40
But, there's no, sort of, special rate for climate-related projects.
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ๋ฐ ๊ธฐํ›„ ๊ด€๋ จ ํ”„๋กœ์ ํŠธ์—๋Š” ํŠน๋ณ„ํ•œ ์šฐ๋Œ€ ๊ธˆ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ๋”ฐ๋กœ ์—†์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
09:47
Now, you know, governments can decide
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์ •๋ถ€๋Š” ์ด๋Ÿฐ ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์„ ๊ฐœ์„ ํ•˜๊ธฐ ์œ„ํ•ด
09:50
through tax incentives to improve those things.
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์„ธ๊ธˆ ํ˜œํƒ ๋“ฑ์˜ ๊ฒฐ์ •์„ ๋‚ด๋ฆด ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์–ด์š”.
09:53
But you know, this is not just about reporting numbers.
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ, ์ด๊ฑด ๊ทธ์ € ์ˆซ์ž์— ๋ถˆ๊ณผํ•œ ๊ฒƒ์ด ์•„๋‹™๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
09:58
It's good to report numbers.
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์ˆซ์ž๋ฅผ ๋งํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ด ๋‚˜์œ ๊ฑด ์•„๋‹ˆ์ฃ .
10:00
But the steel industry is providing a vital service.
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๊ทธ๋ ‡์ง€๋งŒ ์ฒ ๊ฐ• ์‚ฐ์—…์€ ํ•„์ˆ˜์ ์ธ ์„œ๋น„์Šค๋ฅผ ์ œ๊ณตํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
10:04
Even gasoline, for 98 percent of the cars being purchased today,
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์‹ฌ์ง€์–ด ์˜ค๋Š˜๋‚  ํŒ๋งค๋˜๋Š” ์ž๋™์ฐจ ํœ˜๋ฐœ์œ ์˜ 98%๋Š”
10:08
allows people to get to their job.
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์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์ด ์ง์žฅ์œผ๋กœ ์ด๋™ํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋„๋ก ๋„์™€์ฃผ์ฃ .
10:10
And so, you know,
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๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ, ์•„์‹œ๋‹ค์‹œํ”ผ
10:13
just divestment alone is not going to be the thing
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ํˆฌ์ž๊ธˆ์„ ํšŒ์ˆ˜ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ๋งŒ์œผ๋กœ๋Š”
10:17
that creates the new alternative
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์ƒˆ๋กœ์šด ๋Œ€์•ˆ์„ ๋งŒ๋“ค์–ด๋‚ด๊ณ 
10:19
and brings the cost of that down.
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๋น„์šฉ์„ ์ ˆ๊ฐํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์—†์„ ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
10:22
So the finance side will be important because the speed of deployment --
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๋”ฐ๋ผ์„œ ์žฌ์ •์ ์ธ ์ธก๋ฉด์ด ์ค‘์š”ํ•  ์ˆ˜๋ฐ–์— ์—†์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
10:28
Solar and wind needs to be accelerated dramatically
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ํƒœ์–‘๊ณผ ํ’๋ ฅ ๋“ฑ์˜ ๊ตฌ์ถ• ์†๋„๋Š” ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ์ง€๊ธˆ๊ป ํ•ด์˜จ ๊ทธ ์–ด๋–ค ๊ฒƒ๋ณด๋‹ค๋„
10:32
beyond anything we've done today.
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ํ›จ์”ฌ ๋นจ๋ผ์ ธ์•ผ ํ•˜๊ธฐ ๋•Œ๋ฌธ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
10:34
In fact, you know, on average,
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์‹ค์ œ๋กœ, ํ‰๊ท ์ ์œผ๋กœ
10:35
we'll have to deploy three times as much every year as the peak year so far.
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์ง€๊ธˆ๊นŒ์ง€ ์—ฐ๊ฐ„ ์ตœ๊ณ  ์‹ค์ ์˜ ์„ธ ๋ฐฐ๋ฅผ ๋งค๋…„ ๊ตฌ์ถ•ํ•ด์•ผ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
10:43
And so those are a key part of the solution.
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ํ•ด๊ฒฐ์ฑ…์˜ ํ•ต์‹ฌ ๋ถ€๋ถ„์€ ์ด๋Ÿฌํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
10:48
They're not the whole solution.
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๋งŒ๋ณ‘ํ†ต์น˜์•ฝ์€ ์•„๋‹ˆ๊ฒ ์ง€๋งŒ์š”.
10:50
But you know, people sometimes think just by putting numbers,
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์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์€ ์ข…์ข…, ์ˆซ์ž๋ฅผ ๋„ฃ๊ฑฐ๋‚˜
10:55
disclosing numbers,
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์ˆซ์ž๋ฅผ ๊ณต๊ฐœํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ๋งŒ์œผ๋กœ
10:56
that somehow it all changes
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๋ชจ๋“  ๊ฒƒ์ด ๋ณ€ํ•œ๋‹ค๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜๊ฑฐ๋‚˜,
11:00
or by divesting that it all changes.
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๋ฐ˜๋Œ€๋กœ ์ˆซ์ž๋ฅผ ์—†์• ๋ฉด ๋ชจ๋“  ๊ฒƒ์ด ๋ณ€ํ•œ๋‹ค๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜์ง€์š”.
11:03
The financial sector is important,
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๊ธˆ์œต ๋ถ€๋ฌธ๋„ ์ค‘์š”ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ,
11:05
but without the innovation,
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ํ˜์‹ ์—†์ด๋Š”
11:07
there's nothing they can do.
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๊ทธ๋“ค๋„ ํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ด ์—†์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
11:09
Giussani: A lot of the current focus is on cutting emissions by half by 2030
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์ง€์šฐ์‚ฌ๋‹ˆ: ํ˜„์žฌ ๋Œ€๋ถ€๋ถ„์˜ ์ดˆ์ ์€ 2030๋…„๊นŒ์ง€ ๋ฐฐ์ถœ๋Ÿ‰์„ ์ ˆ๋ฐ˜์œผ๋กœ ์ค„์ด๊ณ 
11:14
and on the way to reaching that zero by 2050.
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2050๋…„๊นŒ์ง€ ๋ฐฐ์ถœ๋Ÿ‰์„ 0์— ๋„๋‹ฌํ•˜๋„๋ก ํ•˜๋Š” ๋ฐ์— ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
11:17
And in the book,
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์ด ์ฑ…์—์„œ ๋‹น์‹ ์€
11:18
you write that there is danger in that kind of thinking,
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ์‚ฌ๊ณ ๋Š” ์œ„ํ—˜ํ•˜๋‹ค๊ณ  ๋งํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
11:22
that we should keep our main focus on 2050.
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์ค‘์ ์„ 2050๋…„์— ๋‘์–ด์•ผ ํ•œ๋‹ค๊ณ  ๋ง์ด์ฃ .
11:25
Can you explain that?
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์„ค๋ช…ํ•ด์ฃผ์‹ค ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์œผ์‹ค๊นŒ์š”?
11:27
Gates: Well, the only real measure of how well weโ€™re doing
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๊ฒŒ์ด์ธ : ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ์–ผ๋งˆ๋‚˜ ์ž˜ํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ๋Š”์ง€ ๋ณด์—ฌ์ฃผ๋Š” ์œ ์ผํ•œ ์ฒ™๋„๋Š”
11:29
is the green premium,
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๊ทธ๋ฆฐ ํ”„๋ฆฌ๋ฏธ์—„์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
11:31
because that's what determines
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์™œ๋ƒํ•˜๋ฉด ๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์ด ๋ฐ”๋กœ
11:32
whether India and other developing countries
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์ธ๋„์™€ ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ๊ฐœ๋ฐœ๋„์ƒ๊ตญ๋“ค์ด
11:36
will choose to use the zero emission approach in 2050.
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2050๋…„์— ์ œ๋กœ ๋ฐฐ์ถœ ๋ฐฉ์‹์„ ํƒํ• ์ง€ ๊ฒฐ์ •ํ•˜๊ธฐ ๋•Œ๋ฌธ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
11:40
The idea, you know --
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์ด๋Ÿฐ ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
11:41
If you're focusing on short-term reductions,
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๋‹จ๊ธฐ์ ์ธ ์ ˆ๊ฐ์—๋งŒ ์ดˆ์ ์„ ๋งž์ถ”๋ฉด ์ด๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ์ด์•ผ๊ธฐํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๊ฒ ์ฃ .
11:44
then you could say, oh, it's fantastic,
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โ€œํ™˜์ƒ์ ์ด๋„ค.
11:46
we just put billions of dollars into natural-gas plants.
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๊ทธ๋ƒฅ ์ฒœ์—ฐ ๊ฐ€์Šค ํ”Œ๋žœํŠธ์— ์ˆ˜์‹ญ์–ต ๋‹ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ฅผ ํˆฌ์žํ•˜๋ฉด ๋˜๊ฒ ๊ตฐ.โ€
11:51
And even ignoring that there's a lot of leakage
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์ œ๋Œ€๋กœ ์ธก์ •๋˜์ง€๋„ ์•Š๋Š” ๋ˆ„์ถœ์ด
11:54
that doesn't get properly measured,
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๋งŽ๋‹ค๋Š” ์‚ฌ์‹ค์„ ๋ฌด์‹œํ•œ ์ฑ„,
11:57
you know, give them full credit and say that's a 50 percent reduction.
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50%๋ฅผ ๊ฐ์†Œํ–ˆ๋‹ค๊ณ  ๋งํ•˜๊ฒ ์ฃ .
12:00
The lifetime of that plant is greater than 30 years.
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๊ทธ ํ”Œ๋žœํŠธ์˜ ์ˆ˜๋ช…์€ 30๋…„ ์ด์ƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
12:05
You financed it,
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์ž๊ธˆ์„ ์กฐ๋‹ฌํ•  ๋•Œ๋Š”
12:06
assuming you're getting value out of it over a longer period of time.
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์žฅ๊ธฐ๊ฐ„์— ๊ฐ€์น˜๋ฅผ ์ฐฝ์ถœํ•  ๊ฑฐ๋ผ ์˜ˆ์ƒํ•˜๊ฒ ์ฃ .
12:10
So to say, "Hey, hallelujah,
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๋งํ•˜์ž๋ฉด, โ€œํ• ๋ ๋ฃจ์•ผ.
12:13
we switched from coal to natural gas,"
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์šฐ๋ฆฐ ์„ํƒ„์—์„œ ์ฒœ์—ฐ ๊ฐ€์Šค๋กœ ๋ฐ”๊ฟจ์–ด.โ€ ์ด๋Ÿฐ ๋ง์€
12:16
that has nothing to do with reaching zero.
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0์œผ๋กœ ๋„๋‹ฌํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ๊ณผ ๋ฌด๊ด€ํ•˜๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
12:18
It sets you back because of the capital spending involved there.
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๋ˆ์„ ์Ÿ์•„๋ถ“๋Š” ๊ฒŒ ์˜คํžˆ๋ ค ์ƒํ™ฉ์„ ํ›„ํ‡ด์‹œํ‚ค๋Š” ๊ฑฐ์ฃ .
12:22
And so it's not a path to zero
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๋ฐฐ์ถœ์˜ ๋น„๊ต์  ์‰ฌ์šด ๋ถ€๋ถ„์„ ๋‹ค๋ฃจ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์€
12:26
if you're just working on the easy parts of the emission.
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0์œผ๋กœ ๊ฐ€๋Š” ๊ธธ์ด ์•„๋‹™๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
12:29
That's not a path.
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๊ธธ ์ž์ฒด๊ฐ€ ์•„๋‹ˆ์˜ˆ์š”.
12:30
The path is to take every source of emission
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๊ฐ€์•ผ ํ•  ๊ธธ์€ ๋ชจ๋“  ๋ฐฐ์ถœ์›์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ์ด๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ์ด์•ผ๊ธฐํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
12:34
and say, "Oh, my goodness,
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โ€œ์„ธ์ƒ์—, ์ด ๋ถ„์•ผ๋Š” ์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ๊ทธ๋ฆฐ ํ”„๋ฆฌ๋ฏธ์—„์„ ๋‚ฎ์ถœ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์„๊นŒ?
12:36
how am I going to get that green premium down?
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12:38
How am I going to get that green premium down?"
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์ € ๋ถ„์•ผ๋Š” ์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ๊ทธ๋ฆฐ ํ”„๋ฆฌ๋ฏธ์—„์„ ๋‚ฎ์ถœ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์„๊นŒ?
12:41
Otherwise, getting to 50 percent does not stop the problems.
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๊ทธ๋ ‡์ง€ ์•Š์œผ๋ฉด ๋‹จ์ง€ 50%์— ๋„๋‹ฌํ•œ๋‹ค๊ณ  ๋ฌธ์ œ๋ฅผ ํ•ด๊ฒฐํ•˜์ง€ ๋ชปํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
12:48
This is very tough because the nature is zero.
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์ž์—ฐ์ด 0 ์ด๊ธฐ์—, ๋งค์šฐ ํž˜๋“  ์ผ์ด์ฃ .
12:52
It's not just, you know, a small decrease.
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์•ฝ๊ฐ„์˜ ๊ฐ์†Œ๊ฐ€ ์•„๋‹™๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
12:56
Giussani: So getting the green premium down,
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์ง€์šฐ์‚ฌ๋‹ˆ: ๊ทธ๋ฆฐ ํ”„๋ฆฌ๋ฏธ์—„์„ ๋‚ฎ์ถ”๋Š” ๊ฒƒ๊ณผ ๊ด€๋ จํ•˜์—ฌ
12:59
so you mentioned India.
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์ธ๋„๋ฅผ ์–ธ๊ธ‰ํ•˜์…จ์ฃ .
13:00
To make sure that the transition, the clean transition,
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์ด๋Ÿฌํ•œ ๊นจ๋—ํ•œ ์ „ํ™˜์ด
13:03
is also an Indian story and an African story
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์ธ๋„์˜ ์ด์•ผ๊ธฐ์ด์ž, ์•„ํ”„๋ฆฌ์นด์˜ ์ด์•ผ๊ธฐ๊ฐ€ ๋˜๊ณ 
13:06
and not only a Western story,
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์„œ๊ตฌ๋งŒ์˜ ์ด์•ผ๊ธฐ๊ฐ€ ๋˜์ง€ ์•Š๋„๋ก ํ•˜๋ ค๋ฉด
13:09
should rich countries adopt the expensive clean alternatives now,
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๋ถ€์œ ํ•œ ๋‚˜๋ผ๋“ค์ด ๊ฐ’๋น„์‹ผ ๊นจ๋—ํ•œ ๋Œ€์•ˆ๋“ค์„ ์ฑ„ํƒํ•จ์œผ๋กœ์จ
13:15
to kind of buy down the green premium
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๊ทธ๋ฆฐ ํ”„๋ฆฌ๋ฏธ์—„์„ ๋Œ์–ด๋‚ด๋ฆฌ๊ณ 
13:17
and make technology, therefore, more accessible to low-income countries?
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์ €์†Œ๋“ ๊ตญ๊ฐ€๋“ค์ด ๊ธฐ์ˆ ์„ ๋ณด๋‹ค ์‰ฝ๊ฒŒ ์ ‘๊ทผํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋„๋ก ํ•ด์•ผ ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฑธ๊นŒ์š”?
13:21
Gates: Absolutely.
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๊ฒŒ์ด์ธ : ๋ฌผ๋ก ์ด์ฃ .
13:23
You have to pick which product paths
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์–ด๋–ค ์ œํ’ˆ๋“ค์˜ ๊ทธ๋ฆฐ ํ”„๋ฆฌ๋ฏธ์—„์„ ๋‚ฎ์ถœ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š”์ง€
13:26
with scale will become low green-premium products.
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์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜๊ณ  ๊ฒฐ์ •ํ•ด์•ผ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
13:31
And so you don't want to just randomly pick things that are low-emission.
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๋”ฐ๋ผ์„œ ๊ทธ์ € ๋ฐฐ์ถœ๋Ÿ‰์ด ๋‚ฎ์€ ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์„ ๋ฌด์ž‘์œ„๋กœ ๊ณจ๋ผ์„œ๋Š” ์•ˆ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
13:35
You have to pick things that will come down.
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์•ž์œผ๋กœ ๋‚ด๋ ค์˜ฌ ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์„ ์„ ํƒํ•ด์•ผ ํ•ด์š”.
13:37
So like, you know, so far, hydrogen fuel cells have not done that.
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์ง€๊ธˆ๊นŒ์ง€ ์ˆ˜์†Œ ์—ฐ๋ฃŒ ์ „์ง€๋Š” ๊ทธ๋ ‡์ง€ ์•Š์•˜์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
13:42
Now they might in the future.
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๋ฏธ๋ž˜์— ๊ทธ๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ๋  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์ฃ .
13:44
Solar, wind and lithium-ion,
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ํƒœ์–‘, ํ’๋ ฅ, ๋ฆฌํŠฌ ์ด์˜จ,
13:47
we've seen these incredible cost reductions.
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์ด๋“ค์—๊ฒŒ์„œ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์—„์ฒญ๋‚œ ๋น„์šฉ ์ ˆ๊ฐ์„ ํ™•์ธํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
13:51
And so we have to duplicate that for other areas,
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๋‹ค๋ฅธ ๋ถ„์•ผ์—์„œ๋„ ๊ฐ™์€ ํšจ๊ณผ๋ฅผ ๋ณด์•„์•ผ ํ•ด์š”.
13:55
things like offshore wind, heat pump,
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ํ•ด์•ˆ ํ’๋ ฅ, ์—ด ํŽŒํ”„ ๊ฐ™์€ ๊ฒƒ๋“ค,
13:59
new ways of doing transmission.
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์ƒˆ๋กœ์šด ์ „์†ก ๋ฐฉ์‹ ๋ง์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
14:02
You know, we have to keep the electricity grid reliable,
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์•…์ฒœํ›„์—๋„
14:05
even in very bad weather conditions.
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์ „๋ ฅ๋ง์„ ์•ˆ์ „ํ•˜๊ฒŒ ์œ ์ง€ํ•ด์•ผ ํ•˜๊ธฐ์—
14:08
And so that's where storage or nuclear and transmission
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์ €์žฅ, ๋ฐœ์ „์†Œ ๋ฐ ์ „์†ก์˜ ๊ทœ๋ชจ๊ฐ€
14:12
will have to be scaled up in a very significant way,
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ํ™•์žฅ๋˜์–ด์•ผ ํ•˜๋ฉฐ,
14:16
which we now have this open-source model to look at that.
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์ด๋ฅผ ํ•ด๊ฒฐํ•˜๊ธฐ ์œ„ํ•œ ์˜คํ”ˆ ์†Œ์Šค ๋ชจ๋ธ์ด ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
14:20
And so the buying of green products that demand signal,
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๋”ฐ๋ผ์„œ ์นœํ™˜๊ฒฝ ์ œํ’ˆ๋“ค์„ ์‚ฌ๋Š” ํ–‰์œ„๋Š” ์ œ๊ฐ€ โ€˜์ด‰๋งค์ œโ€™๋ผ๊ณ  ์นญํ•˜๋Š”
14:27
what I call Catalyst,
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์‹œ๊ทธ๋„์„ ํ•„์š”๋กœ ํ•˜๋ฉฐ,
14:29
we're going to have to orchestrate a lot of money,
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ๋งŽ์€ ๋น„์šฉ์„ ์กฐ์ •ํ•ด์•ผ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
14:32
many tens of billions of dollars for that,
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์ˆ˜๋ฐฑ์–ต ๋‹ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ฅผ ๋ง์ด์ฃ .
14:34
that is one of the most expensive pieces
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๊ฐ€์žฅ ๋ˆ์ด ๋งŽ์ด ๋“œ๋Š” ๋ถ€๋ถ„์ด๊ธฐ์—
14:38
so that the improvements come in these other areas
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๋‹ค๋ฅธ ๋ถ€๋ถ„๋“ค์ด ๋ฐœ์ „ํ•ด๋„
14:43
and some of them we haven't even gotten started on.
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์‹œ์ž‘๋„ ํ•˜์ง€ ๋ชปํ•œ ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
14:46
Giussani: Many people believe actually that the climate question is mostly
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์ง€์šฐ์‚ฌ๋‹ˆ: ์‹ค์ œ๋กœ ๋งŽ์€ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์€ ๊ธฐํ›„ ๋ฌธ์ œ๊ฐ€
14:49
a question of consuming less and particularly consuming less energy.
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์ ์€ ์†Œ๋น„, ํŠนํžˆ ์ ์€ ์—๋„ˆ์ง€ ์†Œ๋น„๋กœ ํ•ด๊ฒฐ๋œ๋‹ค๊ณ  ๋ฏฟ๊ณค ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
14:53
And in the book, you actually write several times
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์ด ์ฑ…์—์„œ ๋‹น์‹ ์€ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€
14:56
that we need to consume more energy.
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๋” ๋งŽ์€ ์–‘์˜ ์—๋„ˆ์ง€๋ฅผ ์†Œ๋น„ํ•ด์•ผ ํ•œ๋‹ค๊ณ  ์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ ๋ฒˆ ๊ฐ•์กฐํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
14:59
Why?
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์™œ ๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ๊ฑด๊ฐ€์š”?
15:00
Gates: Well, the basic living conditions that we take for granted
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๊ฒŒ์ด์ธ : ์ž, ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ๋‹น์—ฐํ•˜๊ฒŒ ์—ฌ๊ธฐ๋Š” ๊ธฐ๋ณธ์ ์ธ ์ƒํ™œ ์กฐ๊ฑด์€
15:05
should be made available to all humans.
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๋ชจ๋“  ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์ด ์ด์šฉํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์–ด์•ผ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
15:07
And the human population is growing.
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ๋ฐ ์ธ๊ตฌ๋Š” ์ ์  ์ฆ๊ฐ€ํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ์ฃ .
15:11
And so you're going --
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๊ทธ๊ฒŒ ๊ฐ€๋Šฅํ•˜๋„๋ก ํ•˜๋Š” ๋ฐ์— ์žˆ์–ด์„œ
15:12
as you provide shelter, heating and air conditioning,
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์ฃผ๊ฑฐ์ง€, ๋‚œ๋ฐฉ, ์—์–ด์ปจ์„ ์ œ๊ณตํ•˜๊ฒ ์ฃ .
15:18
which anywhere near the equator will be more in demand
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์ ๋„ ๊ทผ์ฒ˜ ์–ด๋””๋“  ์•ผ์™ธ ํ™œ๋™์ด ๋ถˆ๊ฐ€ํ•œ ๋‚ ๋“ค์ด ๋งŽ๊ธฐ ๋•Œ๋ฌธ์—
15:22
since you'll have many days where you can't go outdoors at all.
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์ด๋Ÿฐ ์กฐ๊ฑด๋“ค์„ ๋”์šฑ ํ•„์š”๋กœ ํ•  ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
15:27
So we're not going to stop making shelter.
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๊ทธ๋ ‡๊ธฐ์— ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ๊ณ„์†ํ•ด์„œ ์ง‘์„ ์ง“๊ณ 
15:30
We're not going to stop making food.
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์Œ์‹์„ ๋งŒ๋“ค๊ฒ ์ฃ .
15:34
And so we need to be able to multiply those processes by zero.
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ๊ทธ ํ”„๋กœ์„ธ์Šค๋“ค์„ 0์œผ๋กœ ๊ณฑํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์–ด์•ผ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
15:39
That is, you make shelter, but there's no emissions.
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๋ฌด์Šจ ๋ง์ธ๊ฐ€ ํ•˜๋ฉด, ์ง‘์„ ์ง“๋Š” ๋ฐ์—๋„ ๋ฐฐ์ถœ์ด ์—†๊ณ ,
15:41
You make food, but there's no emissions.
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์Œ์‹์„ ๋งŒ๋“œ๋Š” ๋ฐ์—๋„ ๋ฐฐ์ถœ์ด ์—†๋Š” ๊ฑฐ์ฃ .
15:44
That's how you get all the way down to zero.
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๊ทธ๊ฒŒ ๋ฐ”๋กœ 0์œผ๋กœ ํ–ฅํ•˜๋Š” ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
15:46
Now, it's made somewhat easier if rich countries are consuming less,
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๋ถ€์œ ํ•œ ๋‚˜๋ผ๋“ค์ด ์†Œ๋น„๋ฅผ ์ค„์ด๋ฉด ์ข€ ๋” ์‰ฌ์›Œ์ง€๊ฒ ์ฃ .
15:53
but how far will that go?
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ๊ทธ๊ฒŒ ์–ด๋””๊นŒ์ง€ ๊ฐˆ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์„๊นŒ์š”?
15:56
Giussani: So if I summarize in my head your book,
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์ง€์šฐ์‚ฌ๋‹ˆ: ๋‹น์‹ ์˜ ์ฑ…์„ ๋จธ๋ฆฟ์†์œผ๋กœ ์š”์•ฝํ•ด๋ณด์ž๋ฉด,
15:59
you are basically suggesting that if we eliminate the green premium,
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๊ธฐ๋ณธ์ ์œผ๋กœ ๋‹น์‹ ์ด ์ œ์•ˆํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฑด, ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ๊ทธ๋ฆฐ ํ”„๋ฆฌ๋ฏธ์—„์„ ์—†์• ๋ฉด
16:03
the transition somehow can occur,
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์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ๋“  ์ „ํ™˜์ด ์ผ์–ด๋‚  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ฑฐ๊ณ ์š”.
16:05
the cost and technology,
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๋น„์šฉ๊ณผ ๊ธฐ์ˆ ,
16:07
green premium and breakthroughs are the key drivers.
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๊ทธ๋ฆฐ ํ”„๋ฆฌ๋ฏธ์—„, ๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ํ˜์‹ ์ด ์ฃผ์š” ์›๋™๋ ฅ์ด๋ผ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ด์ง€์š”.
16:10
But, you know, you think of climate and climate is kind of a wicked problem.
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ด๋ณด๋ฉด, ๊ธฐํ›„๋Š” ๊ฐ„๋‹จํ•œ ๋ฌธ์ œ๊ฐ€ ์•„๋‹ˆ์ฃ .
16:13
It has implications that are social, political, behavioral.
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๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์€ ์‚ฌํšŒ์ , ์ •์น˜์ , ํ–‰๋™์  ์˜๋ฏธ๋ฅผ ๋‚ดํฌํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ์œผ๋ฉฐ,
16:16
It requires significant citizen involvement.
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์ƒ๋‹นํ•œ ์‹œ๋ฏผ ์ฐธ์—ฌ๋ฅผ ์š”๊ตฌํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
16:19
Are you focusing too much on tech and not enough on those other variables?
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๋‹ค๋ฅธ ๋ณ€์ˆ˜๋“ค๋„ ๋งŽ์€๋ฐ ํ˜น์‹œ ๊ธฐ์ˆ ์—๋งŒ ๋„ˆ๋ฌด ์ง‘์ค‘ํ•˜์‹œ๋Š” ๊ฑด ์•„๋‹Œ์ง€์š”?
16:24
Gates: Well, we need all these things.
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๊ฒŒ์ด์ธ : ๊ทธ ๋ชจ๋“  ๊ฒŒ ํ•„์š”ํ•˜์ง€์š”.
16:26
If you don't have a deep engagement,
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ํŠนํžˆ ๋ชจ๋“  ์„ ์ง„๊ตญ์ด
16:30
particularly by the younger generation
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ํ–ฅํ›„ 30๋…„ ๋™์•ˆ ์ด๊ฒƒ์„
16:32
making this a top priority every year for the next 30 years
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์ตœ์šฐ์„  ๊ณผ์ œ๋กœ ์‚ผ๋Š” ๋ฐ ์žˆ์–ด์„œ
16:35
across all the developed countries,
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์ Š์€ ์„ธ๋Œ€์˜ ๊นŠ์€ ์ฐธ์—ฌ๊ฐ€ ์—†๋‹ค๋ฉด
16:39
we will not succeed.
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์„ฑ๊ณตํ•˜์ง€ ๋ชปํ•  ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
16:40
And I'm not the one who knows how to activate all those people.
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์ €์—๊ฒŒ๋Š” ๊ทธ๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ๋งŽ์€ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์ด ํ–‰๋™ํ•˜๋„๋ก ํ•˜๋Š” ๋Šฅ๋ ฅ์ด ์—†์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
16:46
Iโ€™m super glad that the people who are smart about that are thinking.
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ๋Šฅ๋ ฅ์ด ์žˆ๋Š” ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์ด ์ƒ๊ฐ์„ ํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ฒŒ ๊ธฐ๋ป์š”.
16:49
It's a necessary element.
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๊ผญ ํ•„์š”ํ•œ ์š”์†Œ์˜ˆ์š”.
16:51
Likewise, the piece that I do have experience in,
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์ œ๊ฐ€ ๊ฒฝํ—˜์ด ์žˆ๋Š” ๋ถ„์•ผ์ธ
16:55
innovation ecosystems,
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ํ˜์‹  ์ƒํƒœ๊ณ„๋„
16:57
that's a necessary element.
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๋งˆ์ฐฌ๊ฐ€์ง€๋กœ ๊ผญ ํ•„์š”ํ•œ ์š”์†Œ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
17:00
You will not get there just by saying, "Please stop using steel."
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๊ทธ์ € โ€œ์ œ๋ฐœ ๊ฐ•์ฒ ์„ ์‚ฌ์šฉํ•˜์ง€ ๋งˆ์„ธ์š”.โ€ ๋ผ๊ณ  ์ด์•ผ๊ธฐํ•œ๋‹ค๊ณ 
17:06
You know, it won't happen.
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์ผ์–ด๋‚  ์ผ์ด ์•„๋‹Œ๊ฑฐ์ฃ .
17:10
And so the innovation piece has to come along
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๋”ฐ๋ผ์„œ ํ˜์‹ ์€ ๋ฐ˜๋“œ์‹œ ๋”ฐ๋ผ์™€ ์ค˜์•ผ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
17:14
and particularly encouraging consumers to buy electric cars
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ํŠนํžˆ ์†Œ๋น„์ž๋“ค์ด ์ „๊ธฐ ์ž๋™์ฐจ๋ฅผ ์‚ฌ๋„๋ก,
17:19
or artificial meat or electric heat pumps,
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ํ˜น์€ ์ธ๊ณต์œก์ด๋‚˜ ์ „๊ธฐ ์—ด ํŽŒํ”„๋ฅผ ์‚ฌ๋„๋ก ์žฅ๋ คํ•ด์•ผ ํ•ด์š”.
17:23
they're part of driving that demand,
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์ด ์ˆ˜์š”๋ฅผ ๊ฒฌ์ธํ•˜๊ฑฐ๋“ ์š”.
17:26
what I call the catalytic demand.
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๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์„ ์ €๋Š” โ€œ์ด‰๋งค ์ˆ˜์š”โ€œ๋ผ ๋ถ€๋ฆ…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
17:28
That alone won't do it, because some of these big projects,
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๊ทธ๊ฒƒ๋งŒ์œผ๋กœ๋Š” ๋ถ€์กฑํ•ด์š”.
์นœํ™˜๊ฒฝ ์ˆ˜์†Œ, ์นœํ™˜๊ฒฝ ํ•ญ๊ณต ์—ฐ๋ฃŒ ๋“ฑ์˜ ๋Œ€ํ˜• ํ”„๋กœ์ ํŠธ๋“ค์—๋Š”
17:31
like green hydrogen or green aviation fuel
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17:35
require billions in capital expense.
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์ˆ˜์‹ญ์–ต์˜ ์ž๋ณธ์ด ๋น„์šฉ์œผ๋กœ ํ•„์š”ํ•˜๊ธฐ ๋•Œ๋ฌธ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
17:38
But the demand signal from enlightened consumers is very important.
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ๊นจ์šฐ์นœ ์†Œ๋น„์ž๊ฐ€ ๋ณด๋‚ด๋Š” ์ˆ˜์š”์˜ ์‹ ํ˜ธ๋Š” ๋ฌด์ฒ™ ์ค‘์š”ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
17:43
Their political voice is very important.
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๊ทธ๋“ค์˜ ์ •์น˜์  ๋ชฉ์†Œ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ๋ฌด์ฒ™ ์ค‘์š”ํ•˜๋ฉฐ,
17:46
Their pushing the companies they work at is very important.
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์ž์‹ ์˜ ์ง์žฅ์„ ์„ค๋“ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ ๋˜ํ•œ ๋ฌด์ฒ™ ์ค‘์š”ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
17:49
And so I absolutely agree that the broad community who cares about this,
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๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ ์ €๋Š”, ์ด ๋ฌธ์ œ์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ์—ผ๋ คํ•˜๋Š” ๋„“์€ ๊ณต๋™์ฒด๊ฐ€
17:56
particularly if they understand how hard it is and don't say,
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์–ผ๋งˆ๋‚˜ ํž˜๋“  ์ผ์ธ์ง€ ์ดํ•ดํ•˜๊ณ ,
18:00
"Oh, we can do it in 10 years,"
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โ€œ10๋…„์ด๋ฉด ํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์ง€โ€ ๋ผ๊ณ  ๋งํ•˜์ง€ ์•Š๋Š” ๊ฒƒ ๋˜ํ•œ
18:03
they are super important.
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๋ฌด์ฒ™ ์ค‘์š”ํ•˜๋‹ค๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
18:07
Giussani: You mentioned artificial meat and I know you love burgers.
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์ง€์šฐ์‚ฌ๋‹ˆ: ์ธ๊ณต์œก์„ ์–ธ๊ธ‰ํ•˜์…จ๋Š”๋ฐ, ๋ฒ„๊ฑฐ๋ฅผ ์ข‹์•„ํ•˜์‹ ๋‹ค๊ณ  ์•Œ๊ณ  ์žˆ์–ด์š”.
18:10
Have you tried an artificial burger, and how did you find it?
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์ธ๊ณต์œก ๋ฒ„๊ฑฐ๋ฅผ ๋“œ์…”๋ณด์…จ๋‚˜์š”? ์–ด๋– ์…จ๋‚˜์š”?
18:14
Gates: Yes, Iโ€™m an investor in all these Impossible, Beyond and various people.
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๊ฒŒ์ด์ธ : ๋„ค, ์ €๋Š” ์ž„ํŒŒ์„œ๋ธ”, ๋น„์š˜๋“œ ๋“ฑ ์ธ๊ณต์œก ํšŒ์‚ฌ๋“ค์˜ ํˆฌ์ž์ž์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
18:20
And I have to say,
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๋ง์”€๋“œ๋ฆด ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š” ๊ฑด,
18:22
the progress in that sector is greater than I expected.
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๊ทธ ๋ถ„์•ผ์˜ ๋ฐœ์ „์€ ์ œ๊ฐ€ ์˜ˆ์ƒํ–ˆ๋˜ ๊ฒƒ๋ณด๋‹ค ํ›จ์”ฌ ํฝ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
18:26
Five years ago,
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๋ถˆ๊ณผ 5๋…„ ์ „์—๋„
18:27
I would have said that is as hard as manufacturing.
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์ €๋Š” ๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์ด ์ œ์กฐ์—… ๋ถ„์•ผ๋งŒํผ์ด๋‚˜ ์–ด๋ ต๋‹ค๊ณ  ๋งํ–ˆ์„ ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
18:30
Now it's very hard, but not as hard as manufacturing.
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๊ต‰์žฅํžˆ ์–ด๋ ค์šด ์ผ์€ ๋งž์ง€๋งŒ, ์ œ์กฐ์—… ์ •๋„๋Š” ์•„๋‹ˆ์˜ˆ์š”.
18:35
There is no Impossible Foods of green steel
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์นœํ™˜๊ฒฝ ์ฒ ๊ฐ•์˜ ๋Œ€์ฒด์ œ๋Š” ์—†๊ณ ,
18:39
and the quality is going to keep improving.
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ํ’ˆ์งˆ์€ ๊ณ„์† ๋ฐœ์ „ํ•  ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
18:41
It's quite good today.
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์ง€๊ธˆ๋„ ๊ฝค ์ข‹์•„์š”.
18:44
You know, there's other companies coming in to that space
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๋‹ค๋ฅธ ํšŒ์‚ฌ๋“ค๋„ ์ธ๊ณต ์Œ์‹ ๋ถ„์•ผ์— ์ง„์ž…ํ•˜์—ฌ
18:46
covering different types of food.
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๋‹ค์–‘ํ•œ ์ข…๋ฅ˜์˜ ์Œ์‹์„ ๊ฐœ๋ฐœํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ์–ด์š”.
18:50
And as the volume goes up, the price will go down.
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ๊ณต๊ธ‰์ด ๋Š˜์–ด๋‚˜๋ฉด์„œ ๊ฐ€๊ฒฉ์ด ๋‚ด๋ ค๊ฐ€๊ฒ ์ฃ .
18:53
And so I think it's quite promising.
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์ด ๋ถ„์•ผ๊ฐ€ ์œ ๋งํ•˜๋‹ค๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜๋Š” ์ด์œ ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
18:57
I have to admit, 100 percent of my burgers aren't artificial yet,
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๊ณ ๋ฐฑํ•˜์ž๋ฉด, ์•„์ง ์ œ๊ฐ€ ๋จน๋Š” ๋ฒ„๊ฑฐ๋“ค์ด 100% ์ธ๊ณต์œก์€ ์•„๋‹ˆ์˜ˆ์š”.
19:02
it's about 50 percent, but I'll get there.
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ 50% ์ •๋„์ด๊ณ , 100%์— ๋„๋‹ฌํ•  ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
19:06
Giussani: Itโ€™s a start.
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์ง€์šฐ์‚ฌ๋‹ˆ: ์‹œ์ž‘์ด ๋ฐ˜์ด์ฃ .
19:07
You're already on 2030 on that on that front.
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๊ทธ ๋ถ€๋ถ„์—์„œ ๋‹น์‹ ์€ ์ด๋ฏธ 2030๋…„์— ์žˆ๋„ค์š”.
19:10
So you mentioned your expertise in innovation.
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ํ˜์‹ ์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ ๋‹น์‹ ์˜ ์ „๋ฌธ ์ง€์‹์„ ์–ธ๊ธ‰ํ•˜์…จ์ฃ .
19:13
You have a couple of lines of -- how to say it? --
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์ฑ…์˜ ๋‚ด์šฉ ์ค‘์—์„œ
19:16
of exquisite modesty in the book
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๋‹น์‹ ์˜ ๊ฒธ์†ํ•จ์„ ๋ˆˆ์—ฌ๊ฒจ ๋ณด์•˜์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
19:18
where you say you think like an engineer,
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๋‹น์‹ ์€ ์—”์ง€๋‹ˆ์–ด์ฒ˜๋Ÿผ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜๊ณ 
19:20
you don't know much about politics,
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์ •์น˜์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ์ž˜ ๋ชจ๋ฅธ๋‹ค๊ณ  ํ•˜์…จ๋Š”๋ฐ์š”,
19:22
but actually you talk to top politicians more than any of us.
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์‚ฌ์‹ค ์ €ํฌ ๋ชจ๋‘๋ณด๋‹ค ๊ณ ์œ„ ์ •์น˜์ธ๋“ค์„ ์ž์ฃผ ๋Œ€ํ•˜์‹œ์ฃ .
19:25
What do you ask them and what do you hear in return?
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๊ทธ๋“ค์—๊ฒŒ ์–ด๋–ค ์งˆ๋ฌธ์„ ํ•˜์‹œ๊ณ , ์–ด๋–ค ๋Œ€๋‹ต์„ ๋“ค์œผ์‹œ๋Š”์ง€์š”?
19:29
Gates: Well, theyโ€™re mostly responding to voters interest.
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๊ฒŒ์ด์ธ : ๊ทธ๋“ค์€ ๋Œ€๋ถ€๋ถ„ ์œ ๊ถŒ์ž์˜ ๊ด€์‹ฌ์— ๋ฐ˜์‘ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
19:32
Most of the countries we're talking about are democracies.
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์ด์•ผ๊ธฐํ•˜๋Š” ๋Œ€๋ถ€๋ถ„์˜ ๊ตญ๊ฐ€๋“ค์€ ๋ฏผ์ฃผ์ฃผ์˜ ๊ตญ๊ฐ€์ธ๋ฐ์š”,
19:36
And you know,
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์•„์‹œ๋‹ค์‹œํ”ผ,
19:39
there are resources that will need to be put in
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ํˆฌ์ž…๋˜์–ด์•ผ ํ•˜๋Š” ์ž์›์ด ์žˆ์–ด์š”.
19:44
like tax credits that encourage buying green products
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์นœํ™˜๊ฒฝ ์ œํ’ˆ๋“ค์„ ์‚ฌ๋„๋ก ์žฅ๋ คํ•˜๋Š” ์„ธ๊ธˆ ๊ณต์ œ๋ผ๋“ ์ง€,
19:48
or government purchasing of green products
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์‚ด์ง ๋” ๋†’์€ ๊ฐ€๊ฒฉ์—
19:52
at slightly higher prices.
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์ •๋ถ€๊ฐ€ ์นœํ™˜๊ฒฝ ์ œํ’ˆ๋“ค์„ ๊ตฌ๋งคํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ.
19:55
Those are real trade-offs.
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์–ด๋Š ์ •๋„์˜ ํฌ์ƒ์ด ํ•„์š”ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
19:56
And, you know, making sure
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์•„์‹œ๋‹ค์‹œํ”ผ
19:58
that the areas where there's lots of jobs
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์„ํƒ„ ์ฑ„๊ตด์ฒ˜๋Ÿผ
20:03
in, say, coal mining,
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์ผ์ž๋ฆฌ๋Š” ๋งŽ์€๋ฐ
20:06
or things where the demand will go down,
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ํ–ฅํ›„ ์ˆ˜์š”๋Š” ์ค„์–ด๋“ค ๋ถ„์•ผ์— ๊ด€๋ จํ•ด์„œ๋Š”
20:09
having that political sensitivity and thinking through,
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์ •์น˜์  ๊ฐ์ˆ˜์„ฑ์„ ๊ฐ€์ง€๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ด์•ผ ํ•ด์š”.
20:13
can we put the new jobs in that area
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๊ทธ ๋ถ„์•ผ์— ์ƒˆ๋กœ์šด ์ผ์ž๋ฆฌ๋ฅผ ๋งŒ๋“ค ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š”์ง€.
20:15
and what are the departments that handle that.
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๊ทธ๊ฑธ ๋‹ค๋ฃจ๋Š” ๋ถ€์„œ๊ฐ€ ์žˆ๋Š”์ง€.
20:18
This is a tough political problem.
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๊ฝค ์–ด๋ ค์šด ์ •์น˜์ ์ธ ๋ฌธ์ œ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
20:22
And, you know, my admonition to people is not only to get educated themselves,
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์ œ๊ฐ€ ๋“œ๋ฆด ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š” ์ถฉ๊ณ ๋Š”, ํ˜ผ์ž ์•Œ๊ณ  ๋๋‚ผ ๊ฒŒ ์•„๋‹ˆ๋ผ
20:28
but help educate other people.
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๋‹ค๋ฅธ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์ด ๋ฐฐ์šธ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋„๋ก ๋„์™€์•ผ ํ•œ๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
20:30
And often, like in the US,
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ๋ณดํ†ต, ๋ฏธ๊ตญ์—์„œ์ฒ˜๋Ÿผ
20:33
if it's people of both parties, that's even better.
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์–‘๋‹น์ œ์˜ ๊ตญ๋ฏผ๋“ค์ด๋ฉด ๋” ์ข‹์ฃ .
20:38
The level of interest is high,
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๊ด€์‹ฌ๋„๊ฐ€ ์ด๋ฏธ ๋†’์ง€๋งŒ
20:41
but it needs to get even higher,
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๋” ๋†’์•„์ ธ์•ผ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
20:43
almost like a moral mission of all young people
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๋ชจ๋“  ์ Š์€ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์—๊ฒŒ ๊ฐœ์ธ์˜ ์„ฑ๊ณต์„ ๋„˜์–ด์„œ์„œ
20:46
to go beyond their individual success,
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2050๋…„๊นŒ์ง€ 0์œผ๋กœ ๊ฐ€์•ผํ•œ๋‹ค๋Š” ๋ฏฟ์Œ์€
20:49
that they believe that getting to zero by 2050 is critical.
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๊ฑฐ์˜ ๋„๋•์  ์‚ฌ๋ช…์ด ๋˜์–ด์•ผ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
20:55
Giussani: Thank you.
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์ง€์šฐ์‚ฌ๋‹ˆ: ๊ฐ์‚ฌํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
20:56
Now, before we continue the interview,
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์ธํ„ฐ๋ทฐ๋ฅผ ๋” ์ง„ํ–‰ํ•˜๊ธฐ ์ „์—
20:58
I would like to take a short detour for one minute
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1๋ถ„๋งŒ ์ž ์‹œ ๋Œ์•„๊ฐˆ๊นŒ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
21:01
because my colleagues at TED-Ed have produced a series
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์ €์˜ TED-Ed ๋™๋ฃŒ๋“ค์ด ๋‹น์‹ ์˜ ์ฑ…์—์„œ ์˜๊ฐ์„ ๋ฐ›์•„
21:04
of seven animated videos inspired by your book.
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7ํŽธ์˜ ์—๋‹ˆ๋ฉ”์ด์…˜ ๋น„๋””์˜ค๋ฅผ ์ œ์ž‘ํ–ˆ์–ด์š”.
21:07
They introduce the concept of net zero emissions,
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๋น„๋””์˜ค์—์„œ ๊ทธ๋“ค์€ โ€œ์ˆœ๋ฐฐ์ถœ ์ œ๋กœโ€ ๊ฐœ๋…์„ ์„ค๋ช…ํ•˜๊ณ ,
21:10
they discuss other questions and challenges
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ๊ธฐํ›„ ๊ด€๋ จํ•˜์—ฌ ์ง๋ฉดํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ๋Š”
21:14
that we are facing relating to climate.
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๋‹ค๋ฅธ ๋ฌธ์ œ๋“ค๊ณผ ๋„์ „๋“ค์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ๋…ผ์˜ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
21:16
So I would like to share one short clip from one of those animations.
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๊ทธ๋Ÿผ ์ด ์• ๋‹ˆ๋ฉ”์ด์…˜๋“ค ์ค‘ ์งง์€ ์˜์ƒ ํ•˜๋‚˜๋ฅผ ๋ณด์—ฌ๋“œ๋ฆฌ๊ฒ ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
21:23
(Video) You flip a switch,
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์Šค์œ„์น˜๋ฅผ ๋ˆ„๋ฅด๋ฉด,
21:25
coal burns in a furnace which turns water into steam.
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์„ํƒ„์ด ์šฉ๊ด‘๋กœ์—์„œ ํƒ€๋ฉด์„œ ๋ฌผ์ด ์ฆ๊ธฐ๋กœ ๋ณ€ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
21:29
That steam spins a turbine
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๊ทธ ์ฆ๊ธฐ๋Š” ํ„ฐ๋นˆ์„ ๋Œ๋ ค
21:31
which activates a generator
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์ „์ž๋ฅผ ์ „์„ ์œผ๋กœ ๋ฐ€์–ด๋‚ด๋Š”
21:33
which pushes electrons through the wire.
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๋ฐœ์ „๊ธฐ๋ฅผ ์ž‘๋™์‹œํ‚ค์ฃ .
21:36
This current propagates through hundreds of miles of electric cables
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์ด ์ „๋ฅ˜๋Š” ์ˆ˜๋ฐฑ ๋งˆ์ผ์˜ ์ „๊ธฐ ์ผ€์ด๋ธ”์„ ํ†ตํ•ด ์ „ํŒŒ๋˜์–ด
21:40
and arrives at your home.
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๋‹น์‹ ์˜ ์ง‘์— ๋„์ฐฉํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
21:43
All around the world,
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์ „ ์„ธ๊ณ„
21:44
countless people are doing this every second:
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์ˆ˜๋งŽ์€ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์ด ๋งค์ˆœ๊ฐ„ ์ด๊ฑธ ํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ์–ด์š”.
21:48
flipping a switch, plugging in, pressing an "on" button.
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์Šค์œ„์น˜ ์ผœ๊ธฐ, ๊ฝ‚๊ธฐ, โ€œ์ผœ๊ธฐโ€ ๋ฒ„ํŠผ์„ ๋ˆ„๋ฅด๊ธฐ
21:52
So how much electricity does humanity need?
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๊ทธ๋ ‡๋‹ค๋ฉด ์ธ๋ฅ˜์—๊ฒŒ ํ•„์š”ํ•œ ์ „๋ ฅ์€ ์–ผ๋งˆ๋‚˜ ๋ ๊นŒ์š”?
21:57
Giussani: The answer to that and to many other climate questions, of course,
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์ง€์šฐ์‚ฌ๋‹ˆ: ์ด ์งˆ๋ฌธ๊ณผ ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ๊ธฐํ›„ ๊ด€๋ จ ์งˆ๋ฌธ์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ ๋‹ต์€
22:00
is in the seven animations available on the TED-Ed site,
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TED-Ed ์‚ฌ์ดํŠธ, ๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์œ ํŠœ๋ธŒ ์ฑ„๋„์—์„œ ํ™•์ธํ•˜์‹ค ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š”
22:03
and the TED-Ed YouTube channel.
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์ผ๊ณฑ ๊ฐœ์˜ ์• ๋‹ˆ๋ฉ”์ด์…˜์— ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
22:06
Bill, you mentioned the younger generation before.
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๋นŒ, ์•„๊นŒ ์ Š์€ ์„ธ๋Œ€์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ๋ง์”€ํ•˜์…จ๋Š”๋ฐ์š”,
22:09
How does the younger generation's role in solving this problem inspire you?
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์ด ๋ฌธ์ œ์˜ ํ•ด๊ฒฐ์— ์žˆ์–ด์„œ ์ Š์€ ์„ธ๋Œ€์˜ ์—ญํ• ์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜์‹œ๋‚˜์š”?
22:15
Gates: Well, they ...
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๊ฒŒ์ด์ธ : ๊ทธ๋“ค์€ ์ด๊ฒƒ์ด
22:19
can make sure this is a priority.
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์šฐ์„ ์ˆœ์œ„๊ฐ€ ๋  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋„๋ก ํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
22:23
And if we have, you know, it's a priority for four years,
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ๋ฐ ํ•œ 4๋…„ ๋™์•ˆ ์šฐ์„ ์ˆœ์œ„์˜€๋‹ค๊ฐ€,
22:27
then it's not for four years,
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๋˜ 4๋…„ ๋™์•ˆ ์•„๋‹ˆ์—ˆ๋‹ค๊ฐ€ ํ•˜๋ฉด
22:29
you can't ask the trillions of investment in the new approach
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์ด ์ƒˆ๋กœ์šด ์ ‘๊ทผ๋ฒ•์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ ์ˆ˜์กฐ ๋‹ฌ๋Ÿฌ์˜ ํˆฌ์ž๋ฅผ
22:36
to take place.
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์š”๊ตฌํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์—†๊ฒŒ ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
22:37
It's got to be pretty clear
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๋ถ„๋ช…ํ•˜๊ฒŒ ํ•ด์•ผ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
22:40
that even though political parties may disagree on the tactics,
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์ „๋žต์ ์ธ ๋ฉด์—์„œ๋Š” ์ •๋‹น๋“ค์ด ์„œ๋กœ ๋™์˜ํ•˜์ง€ ๋ชปํ•˜๋”๋ผ๋„,
22:45
the same way they agree there should be a strong defense
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๊ฐ•๋ ฅํ•œ ๋ฐฉ์–ด๊ฐ€ ํ•„์š”ํ•˜๋‹ค๋Š” ์‚ฌ์‹ค,
22:49
that they agree this zero by 2050 is a shared goal,
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  2050๋…„๊นŒ์ง€ ์ œ๋กœ์— ๋„๋‹ฌํ•˜๋ ค๋Š” ๊ณต๋™์˜ ๋ชฉํ‘œ์— ๋™์˜ํ•œ๋‹ค๋ฉด,
22:53
and then discuss, OK, where does government come in,
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๊ทธ ๋•Œ ๋…ผ์˜ํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์„ ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ์ •๋ถ€์˜ ์—ญํ• ์€ ๋ฌด์—‡์ด๊ณ ,
22:57
where does the private sector come in,
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๋ฏผ๊ฐ„ ๋ถ€๋ถ„์˜ ์—ญํ• ์€ ๋ฌด์—‡์ด๋ฉฐ,
22:59
which area deserves priority?
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์–ด๋–ค ๋ถ€๋ถ„์ด ์šฐ์„ ์ˆœ์œ„๊ฐ€ ๋˜์–ด์•ผ ํ•˜๋Š”์ง€.
23:02
That will be a huge milestone
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๋ชฉํ‘œ์— ๋„๋‹ฌํ•  ๊ฒƒ์ธ์ง€๊ฐ€ ์•„๋‹Œ,
23:04
where itโ€™s a discussion about how to get there
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์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ๋„๋‹ฌํ•  ๊ฒƒ์ธ์ง€ ๋…ผ์˜ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์€
23:09
versus whether to get there.
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์ค‘๋Œ€ํ•œ ์ด์ •ํ‘œ๊ฐ€ ๋  ๊ฑฐ์˜ˆ์š”.
23:10
And the US is the most fraught in terms of it being politicized,
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ๋ฏธ๊ตญ์—์„œ๋Š” ๊ธฐํ›„ ๋ฌธ์ œ์˜ ์ •์น˜ํ™”๊ฐ€ ๊ฐ€์žฅ ์šฐ๋ ค๋˜์ฃ .
23:15
even in terms of, is this a huge problem or not.
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์‹ฌ๊ฐํ•œ ๋ฌธ์ œ์ธ์ง€ ์•„๋‹Œ์ง€๋ถ€ํ„ฐ์š”.
23:19
So, you know, young people,
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์ Š์€ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์€
23:22
they're going to be around to see the good news
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ์ด ๋ชฉํ‘œ๋ฅผ ๋‹ฌ์„ฑํ•œ๋‹ค๋ฉด,
23:26
if we're able to achieve this.
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๊ทธ ์ข‹์€ ์†Œ์‹์„ ์ง์ ‘ ๊ฒฝํ—˜ํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์„ ๊ฑฐ์˜ˆ์š”.
23:30
You know, I won't be around.
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์•„๋งˆ ์ €๋Š” ์—ฌ๊ธฐ ์—†๊ฒ ์ฃ .
23:33
But, they speak with moral authority
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ๋ฐ, ๊ทธ๋“ค์€ ๋„๋•์  ๊ถŒ์œ„๋ฅผ ๊ฐ€์ง€๊ณ  ์ด์•ผ๊ธฐํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
23:36
and they have particular people who are stepping up on this.
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์ด ๋ฌธ์ œ์— ๋‚˜์„œ๋Š” ํŠน์ •ํ•œ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์ด ์žˆ์–ด์š”.
23:41
But I hope that's just the beginning.
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๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์ด ๊ทธ์ € ์‹œ์ž‘์— ๋ถˆ๊ณผํ•˜๊ธธ ๋ฐ”๋ž๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
23:44
And that's why this year, I think, is so important.
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๊ทธ๊ฒŒ ์ œ๊ฐ€ ์ด๋ฒˆ ๋…„๋„๊ฐ€ ์ค‘์š”ํ•˜๋‹ค๊ณ  ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜๋Š” ์ด์œ ์˜ˆ์š”.
23:48
All this recovery money being programed,
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์ด ๋ชจ๋“  ๋ณต๊ตฌ ๋น„์šฉ์ด ํ”„๋กœ๊ทธ๋žจ ๋˜๋Š” ๋ฐ ์žˆ์–ด์„œ
23:51
people thinking about, do governments protect us the way they should,
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์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์€ ์ด๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜์ฃ .
์ •๋ถ€๊ฐ€ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋ฅผ ์ œ๋Œ€๋กœ ๋ณดํ˜ธํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ธ๊ฐ€?
23:55
do governments work together?
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์ •๋ถ€๋“ค์ด ์„œ๋กœ ํ˜‘๋ ฅํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ๋‚˜?
23:56
You know, the pandemic has teed this up, itโ€™s OK,
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์ „์—ผ๋ณ‘์ด ์ƒํ™ฉ์„ ๋งŽ์ด ์•…ํ™”์‹œ์ผฐ์ง€๋งŒ,
23:59
what's the next big problem we need to collaborate around?
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ํ˜‘๋ ฅํ•˜์—ฌ ํ•ด๊ฒฐํ•ด์•ผ ํ•  ๋‹ค์Œ ์ค‘์š”ํ•œ ๊ณผ์ œ๋Š” ๋ฌด์—‡์ธ๊ฐ€?
24:03
And I'm hoping that climate appears there
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์ด๋Ÿฐ ์งˆ๋ฌธ์— ๊ธฐํ›„ ๋ฌธ์ œ๊ฐ€ ๋“ฑ์žฅํ–ˆ์œผ๋ฉด ์ข‹๊ฒ ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
24:08
because of these activists.
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๋งŽ์€ ํ™œ๋™๊ฐ€๋“ค์ด ์žˆ์œผ๋‹ˆ๊นŒ์š”.
24:10
Giussani: Yeah, we ought to come back to the pandemic question.
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์ง€์šฐ์‚ฌ๋‹ˆ: ๋„ค, ํŒฌ๋ฐ๋ฏน ๊ด€๋ จ ์งˆ๋ฌธ์œผ๋กœ ๋Œ์•„์™€์•ผ ํ•˜๊ฒ ์ง€๋งŒ
24:13
But I want to talk a moment about some specific technology breakthroughs
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๋จผ์ € ์ฑ…์—์„œ ์–ธ๊ธ‰ํ•˜์‹  ํŠน์ • ๊ธฐ์ˆ  ํ˜์‹ ๋“ค์— ๊ด€๋ จํ•˜์—ฌ
24:17
that you mention in the book.
431
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์ด์•ผ๊ธฐ๋ฅผ ํ•˜๊ณ  ์‹ถ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
24:19
But you also just mentioned
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์ด๋ฏธ ์–ธ๊ธ‰ํ•˜์…จ๋“ฏ์ด
24:20
the organization you set up, Breakthrough Energy,
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ํ˜์‹  ์—๋„ˆ์ง€ ๋ฒค์ฒ˜ ์„ค๋ฆฝ์„ ํ†ตํ•ด์„œ
24:22
to invest in clean tech start-up and advocate for policies.
434
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์ฒญ์ • ๊ธฐ์ˆ  ์Šคํƒ€ํŠธ์—…์— ํˆฌ์žํ•˜๊ณ  ๊ด€๋ จ ์ •์ฑ…๋„ ์ง€์ง€ํ•˜๊ณ  ๊ณ„์‹œ์ฃ .
24:26
And I assume somehow your book is kind of a blueprint
435
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ๋ณด๋ฉด ๋‹น์‹ ์˜ ์ฑ…์€ ์ผ์ข…์˜ ์ฒญ์‚ฌ์ง„์œผ๋กœ ๋ณผ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๊ฒ ๋„ค์š”.
24:28
for what Breakthrough Energy is going to do.
436
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ํ˜์‹  ์—๋„ˆ์ง€ ๋ฒค์ฒ˜๊ฐ€ ์•ž์œผ๋กœ ํ•ด์•ผ ํ•  ์ผ์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ ์ฒญ์‚ฌ์ง„์ด์š”.
24:32
There is a branch in that organization,
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๊ทธ ์กฐ์ง ๋‚ด์—
24:35
called Catalyst,
438
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โ€˜์นดํƒˆ๋ฆฌ์ŠคํŠธโ€™๋ผ๋Š” ๋ถ€์„œ๊ฐ€ ์žˆ๋Š”๋ฐ,
24:36
that's prioritizing several technologies,
439
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๊ทธ๋“ค์€ ๋ช‡ ๊ฐ€์ง€ ๊ธฐ์ˆ ์„ ์šฐ์„ ์‹œํ•˜์ฃ .
24:38
including green hydrogen direct carbon-capture,
440
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์นœํ™˜๊ฒฝ ์ˆ˜์†Œ, ์ด์‚ฐํ™”ํƒ„์†Œ ํฌํš,
24:41
aviation biofuels.
441
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ํ•ญ๊ณต ๋ฐ”์ด์˜ค ์—ฐ๋ฃŒ ๋“ฑ์ด ํฌํ•จ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
24:42
I don't want to ask you about specific investments,
442
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๊ตฌ์ฒด์ ์ธ ํˆฌ์ž์— ๊ด€๋ จํ•ด์„œ๋Š” ์—ฌ์ญค๋ณด์ง€ ์•Š๊ฒ ์ง€๋งŒ
24:45
but I would like to ask you to describe why those priorities,
443
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์šฐ์„ ์ˆœ์œ„๋ฅผ ์ด๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ์ •ํ•˜์‹  ์ด์œ ๋ฅผ ๋ฌป๊ณ  ์‹ถ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
24:48
maybe starting with green hydrogen.
444
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์นœํ™˜๊ฒฝ ์ˆ˜์†Œ๋ถ€ํ„ฐ ๋ง์”€ํ•ด์ฃผ์‹ค ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์„๊นŒ์š”?
24:51
Gates: If we can get green hydrogen thatโ€™s very cheap,
445
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๊ฒŒ์ด์ธ : ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ๋งŒ์•ฝ ์•„์ฃผ ์ €๋ ดํ•œ ์ˆ˜์†Œ๋ฅผ ์–ป์„ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋‹ค๋ฉด,
24:55
and we don't know that we can,
446
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๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์ด ๊ฐ€๋Šฅํ• ์ง€๋Š” ๋ชจ๋ฅด์ง€๋งŒ,
24:58
that becomes a magic ingredient to a lot of processes
447
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๋Œ€๋‹จํžˆ ๋งŽ์€ ๊ณต์ •์—์„œ ๋งˆ์น˜ ๋งˆ๋ฒ•์˜ ์žฌ๋ฃŒ ๊ฐ™์€ ์กด์žฌ๊ฐ€ ๋  ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
25:04
that lets you make fertilizer without using natural gas,
448
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์ฒœ์—ฐ๊ฐ€์Šค ์—†์ด ๋น„๋ฃŒ๋ฅผ ๋งŒ๋“ค ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋„๋ก ํ•˜๊ณ ,
25:08
it lets you reduce iron ore for steel production
449
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์–ด๋– ํ•œ ํ˜•ํƒœ์˜ ์„ํƒ„๋„ ์‚ฌ์šฉํ•˜์ง€ ์•Š๊ณ 
25:14
without using any form of coal.
450
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์ฒ ๊ด‘์„์˜ ์–‘์„ ์ค„์—ฌ์„œ ์ฒ ๊ฐ•์„ ์ƒ์‚ฐํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋„๋ก ํ•˜๊ฒ ์ฃ .
25:17
And so there's two ways to make it.
451
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๋งŒ๋“œ๋Š” ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•์€ ๋‘ ๊ฐ€์ง€๊ฐ€ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
25:20
You can take water and split it into hydrogen and oxygen.
452
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๋ฌผ์„ ์‚ฐ์†Œ์™€ ์ˆ˜์†Œ๋กœ ์ชผ๊ฐœ๋Š” ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•์ด ์žˆ๊ณ ์š”.
25:23
You can take natural gas and pull out the hydrogen.
453
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์ฒœ์—ฐ๊ฐ€์Šค์—์„œ ์ˆ˜์†Œ๋ฅผ ๋นผ๋‚ด๋Š” ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•๋„ ์žˆ์–ด์š”.
25:28
And so it's kind of a holy grail,
454
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์ผ์ข…์˜ ์„ฑ๋ฐฐ๊ฐ™์€ ๊ฑฐ์˜ˆ์š”.
25:32
you know, and so we need to get going.
455
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๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์„œ๋‘˜๋Ÿฌ์•ผ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
25:36
We need to get all the components to be very, very cheap.
456
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๋ชจ๋“  ๋ถ€ํ’ˆ๋“ค์„ ์•„์ฃผ, ์•„์ฃผ ์ €๋ ดํ•˜๊ฒŒ ๋งŒ๋“ค์–ด์•ผ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
25:41
And only by actually doing projects, significant scale projects,
457
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์‹ค์ œ ์ƒ๋‹นํ•œ ์Šค์ผ€์ผ์˜ ํ”„๋กœ์ ํŠธ๋ฅผ ํ†ตํ•ด์„œ๋งŒ
25:45
do you get on to that learning curve.
458
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๊ทธ ํ•™์Šต๊ณก์„ ์— ์˜ฌ๋ผ๊ฐˆ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
25:48
And so Catalyst will fund
459
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๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ ์นดํƒˆ๋ฆฌ์ŠคํŠธ๋Š” ์ •๋ถ€๋“ค๊ณผ ํ•จ๊ป˜
25:52
the early pilot projects
460
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์ดˆ๊ธฐ ํŒŒ์ผ๋Ÿฟ ํ”„๋กœ์ ํŠธ๋“ค์— ํˆฌ์žํ•  ์˜ˆ์ •์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
25:55
along with governments to go make green hydrogen,
461
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์นœํ™˜๊ฒฝ ์ˆ˜์†Œ๋ฅผ ๋งŒ๋“ค์–ด์„œ
26:01
get the electrolyzers to get up in volume
462
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์ „ํ•ด์กฐ์˜ ์–‘์„ ๋Š˜๋ ค
26:03
and get a lot cheaper,
463
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๊ฐ’์‹ธ๊ฒŒ ๋งŒ๋“œ๋Š” ๊ฑฐ์ฃ .
26:05
because that would be a huge advance.
464
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๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์€ ์—„์ฒญ๋‚œ ์ง„์ „์ด ๋  ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
26:11
Lot of manufacturing, not all of it, but a lot of it would be solved with that.
465
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๋Œ€๋Ÿ‰์ƒ์‚ฐ์ด ๋ชจ๋‘๋Š” ์•„๋‹ˆ์ง€๋งŒ ๋งŽ์€ ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์„ ํ•ด๊ฒฐํ•  ๊ฑฐ์˜ˆ์š”.
26:16
Giussani: So just for those who donโ€™t know,
466
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์ง€์šฐ์‚ฌ๋‹ˆ: ๋ชจ๋ฅด๋Š” ๋ถ„๋“ค์„ ์œ„ํ•ด์„œ ๋ง์”€๋“œ๋ฆฌ์ž๋ฉด,
26:17
green hydrogen is produced with clean energy sources,
467
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์นœํ™˜๊ฒฝ ์ˆ˜์†Œ๋Š” ํ’๋ ฅ, ํƒœ์–‘ ๋“ฑ
26:20
wind, solar and so,
468
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์ฒญ์ • ์—๋„ˆ์ง€์›์œผ๋กœ ์ƒ์‚ฐ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
26:22
nitrogen produced from natural gas or fossil gas is called gray hydrogen.
469
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๋ฐ˜๋Œ€๋กœ ์ฒœ์—ฐ๊ฐ€์Šค์—์„œ ์ƒ์‚ฐ๋œ ์งˆ์†Œ๋‚˜ ํ™”์„ ์—ฐ๋ฃŒ๋Š” ํšŒ์ƒ‰ ์ˆ˜์†Œ๋ผ ๋ถˆ๋ฆฝ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
26:30
The second priority that you have set is direct carbon capture,
470
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๋‹น์‹ ์ด ์„ค์ •ํ•œ ๋‘ ๋ฒˆ์งธ ์šฐ์„ ์ˆœ์œ„๋Š” ์ง์ ‘ ํƒ„์†Œ ํฌํš์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
26:34
pulling carbon from the atmosphere.
471
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๋Œ€๊ธฐ์—์„œ ํƒ„์†Œ๋ฅผ ์ถ”์ถœํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฑด๋ฐ์š”.
26:36
And at least in theory,
472
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์ ์–ด๋„ ์ด๋ก  ์ƒ์œผ๋กœ๋Š”
26:37
we can find a way to do that at large scale.
473
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๋Œ€๊ทœ๋ชจ๋กœ ๊ทธ๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ํ•  ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•์„ ์ฐพ์„ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์„ ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
26:41
Together with other technologies the problem could be solved,
474
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๋‹ค๋ฅธ ๊ธฐ์ˆ ๋“ค๊ณผ ํ•จ๊ป˜ ๋ฌธ์ œ๋ฅผ ํ•ด๊ฒฐํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๊ฒ ์ง€๋งŒ
26:44
but it's a very early-stage, unproven technology.
475
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์•„์ง ์ดˆ๊ธฐ ๋‹จ๊ณ„์ด๊ณ , ๊ฒ€์ฆ๋˜์ง€ ์•Š์€ ๊ธฐ์ˆ ์ด์ฃ .
26:47
You describe it yourself in the book as a thought experiment at this stage.
476
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๋‹น์‹ ์˜ ์ฑ…์—์„œ๋Š” ์‚ฌ๊ณ  ์‹คํ—˜ ์ •๋„๋กœ ์„ค๋ช…์„ ํ•˜์‹œ๋Š”๋ฐ์š”,
26:52
But you are one of the main investors in this sector in the world.
477
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์ด ๋ถ„์•ผ์˜ ์ „ ์„ธ๊ณ„ ์ฃผ์š” ํˆฌ์ž์ž๋“ค ์ค‘ ํ•œ ๋ถ„์ด์ง€ ์•Š์Šต๋‹ˆ๊นŒ.
26:55
So what's the real potential for direct carbon capture?
478
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์ง์ ‘ ํƒ„์†Œ ํฌํš์˜ ์ง„์ •ํ•œ ์ž ์žฌ๋ ฅ์€ ๋ฌด์—‡์ธ๊ฐ€์š”?
26:59
Gates: So thereโ€™s a company today, Climeworks,
479
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๊ฒŒ์ด์ธ : Climeworks๋ผ๋Š” ํšŒ์‚ฌ๊ฐ€ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
27:03
that for a bit over 600 dollars a ton will do capture.
480
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๊ทธ๋“ค์€ ํ†ค๋‹น 600 ๋‹ฌ๋Ÿฌ๊ฐ€ ์กฐ๊ธˆ ๋„˜๋Š” ๊ธˆ์•ก์œผ๋กœ ํฌํšํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์ฃ .
27:08
Now itโ€™s at fairly small scale.
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์ง€๊ธˆ์€ ๊ทœ๋ชจ๊ฐ€ ์ƒ๋‹นํžˆ ์ž‘์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
27:11
I'm a customer of theirs as part of my program
482
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์ €๋Š” ๊ทธ๋“ค์˜ ๊ณ ๊ฐ์ด๊ธฐ๋„ ํ•ด์š”.
27:14
where I eliminate all of my carbon emissions
483
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์ €์˜ ํƒ„์†Œ ๋ฐฐ์ถœ์„ ๋ชจ๋‘ ์ œ๊ฑฐํ•˜๋Š” ํ”„๋กœ๊ทธ๋žจ์„ ์ง„ํ–‰ ์ค‘์ด์ฃ .
27:19
in a gold standard way.
484
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์ตœ์ ์˜ ํ‘œ์ค€ ๋ฐฉ์‹์œผ๋กœ์š”.
27:22
There are other people who are trying to do larger-scale plants
485
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๋” ํฐ ๊ทœ๋ชจ์˜ ๊ณต์žฅ์„ ๋งŒ๋“ค๊ณ ์ž ํ•˜๋Š” ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค๋„ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
27:25
like Carbon Engineering.
486
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Carbon Engineering์ด ๊ทธ์ค‘ ํ•˜๋‚˜์ฃ .
27:28
Breakthrough Energy is investing
487
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ํ˜์‹  ์—๋„ˆ์ง€ ๋ฒค์ฒ˜๋Š” ์ด๋Ÿฐ
27:30
in a number of these carbon-capture entities.
488
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ํƒ„์†Œ ํฌํš ๊ธฐ์—…๋“ค์— ํˆฌ์žํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
27:34
In a way, the carbon capture is for the part
489
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์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ๋ณด๋ฉด, ํƒ„์†Œ ํฌํš์€
27:36
that you can't solve any other way.
490
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๋‹ค๋ฅธ ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•์œผ๋กœ๋Š” ํ•ด๊ฒฐํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์—†๋Š” ๋ถ€๋ถ„์„ ์œ„ํ•œ ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
27:39
It's kind of the brute-force piece,
491
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์ผ์ข…์˜ ๋ง‰๋ฌด๊ฐ€๋‚ด ์กฐ๊ฐ์ด๋ผ๊ณ  ๋ณผ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
27:41
and no one knows what that price will be.
492
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์•„๋ฌด๋„ ๊ทธ ๋น„์šฉ์ด ์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ๋ ์ง€ ๋ชฐ๋ผ์š”.
27:45
If it's 100 dollars a ton,
493
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ํ†ค๋‹น 100๋‹ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ฉด
27:47
then the cost against current emissions would be five trillion a year.
494
1667663
5134
ํ˜„์žฌ ๋ฐฐ์ถœ๋Ÿ‰์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ ๋น„์šฉ์€ ์—ฐ๊ฐ„ 5์กฐ ๋‹ฌ๋Ÿฌ๊ฐ€ ๋  ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
27:53
Can we get below 100 dollars a ton?
495
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ํ†ค๋‹น 100๋‹ฌ๋Ÿฌ ์•„๋ž˜๋กœ ๊ฐˆ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์„๊นŒ์š”?
27:57
It's not clear that we can,
496
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ํ™•์‹คํ•˜์ง€ ์•Š์ง€๋งŒ,
27:59
but it would be fantastic to take the final 10,
497
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๋ฐฐ์ถœ๋Ÿ‰์˜ ๋งˆ์ง€๋ง‰ 10 ์—์„œ 15%๋ฅผ ์ฒ˜๋ฆฌํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋‹ค๋ฉด
28:04
15 percent of emissions,
498
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์ •๋ง ํ™˜์ƒ์ ์ผ ๊ฑฐ์˜ˆ์š”.
28:07
and instead of making the change
499
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๋ฐฐ์ถœ์ด ๋ฐœ์ƒํ•˜๋Š” ์žฅ์†Œ์—์„œ
28:08
at the place where the emission takes place,
500
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๋ณ€ํ™”๋ฅผ ์ถ”๊ตฌํ•˜๊ธฐ๋ณด๋‹ค,
28:11
just do this, direct air capture.
501
1691063
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๊ทธ๋ƒฅ ์ง์ ‘ ๊ณต๊ธฐ ์ค‘์—์„œ ํฌํšํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฑฐ์ฃ .
28:13
To be clear, direct air capture means you're just filtering the air,
502
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ํ™•์‹คํžˆ ๋ง์”€๋“œ๋ฆฌ์ž๋ฉด, ์ง์ ‘ ๊ณต๊ธฐ ํฌํš์€ ๊ณต๊ธฐ๋ฅผ ํ•„ํ„ฐ๋งํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ๊ณผ ๊ฐ™์•„์„œ,
28:17
and you're pulling out the 410 million current parts per million
503
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ํ˜„์žฌ์˜ ๋ฐฑ๋งŒ ๊ฐœ๋‹น 4์–ต 1์ฒœ๋งŒ ๊ฐœ๋ฅผ ๋นผ๋‚ด์„œ
28:22
and putting that into a pressurized form of CO2
504
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๊ทธ๊ฑธ ์ด์‚ฐํ™”ํƒ„์†Œ ํ˜•ํƒœ๋กœ ์••์ถ•ํ•ด์„œ ๋„ฃ์€ ๋‹ค์Œ
28:27
that then you sequester in someplace
505
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์ˆ˜๋ฐฑ๋งŒ๋…„ ๋™์•ˆ ์œ ์ง€๋  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š” ๊ณณ์œผ๋กœ
28:29
that you know it'll stay for millions of years.
506
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๊ฒฉ๋ฆฌ์‹œํ‚ค๋Š” ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
28:32
And so this industry is just at the very, very beginning.
507
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์ด ๋ถ„์•ผ์˜ ์‚ฐ์—…์€ ์•„์ง ์•„์ฃผ ์ดˆ๊ธฐ ๋‹จ๊ณ„์— ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
28:38
But it's a necessary piece for the tail of emissions.
508
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ๋ฐฐ์ถœ์˜ ์ข…์ฐฉ์ง€์— ๊ผญ ํ•„์š”ํ•œ ๋ถ€๋ถ„์ด์ฃ .
28:43
Giussani: And a third priority is aviation biofuels.
509
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์ง€์šฐ์‚ฌ๋‹ˆ: ์„ธ ๋ฒˆ์งธ ์šฐ์„ ์ˆœ์œ„๋Š” ํ•ญ๊ณต ๋ฐ”์ด์˜ค ์—ฐ๋ฃŒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
28:47
Now flying over the last several years
510
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์ง€๋‚œ ๋ช‡ ๋…„๊ฐ„ ๋น„ํ–‰ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์€
28:49
has become a symbol of a polluting lifestyle, let's say.
511
1729563
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ํ™˜๊ฒฝ์„ ์˜ค์—ผ์‹œํ‚ค๋Š” ์ƒํ™œ๋ฐฉ์‹์˜ ์ƒ์ง•์ด ๋˜์—ˆ๋‹ค๊ณ  ํ•  ์ˆ˜๋„ ์žˆ์„ํ…๋ฐ์š”,
28:52
Why aviation biofuels as a priority?
512
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ํ•ญ๊ณต ๋ฐ”์ด์˜ค ์—ฐ๋ฃŒ๋ฅผ ์šฐ์„ ์ˆœ์œ„๋กœ ์ •ํ•˜์‹  ์ด์œ ๋Š” ๋ฌด์–ธ๊ฐ€์š”?
28:55
Gates: Well, the great thing about passenger cars
513
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๊ฒŒ์ด์ธ : ์Šน์šฉ์ฐจ์˜ ์ข‹์€ ์ ์€
28:58
is that even though batteries don't store energy
514
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๋ฐฐํ„ฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ํœ˜๋ฐœ์œ ์ฒ˜๋Ÿผ
29:05
as well as gasoline does,
515
1745063
1700
์—๋„ˆ์ง€๋ฅผ ์ €์žฅํ•˜์ง€ ์•Š์•„๋„ ๋œ๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
29:06
there's dramatic difference,
516
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์—ฌ๋ถ„์˜ ๋ฐฐํ„ฐ๋ฆฌ๋“ค์˜ ํฌ๊ธฐ์™€ ๋ฌด๊ฒŒ๋ฅผ ๊ฐ๋‹นํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋‹ค๋Š”
29:11
you can afford to have the extra size and weight of those batteries.
517
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๊ทน์ ์ธ ์ฐจ์ด๊ฐ€ ์žˆ์–ด์š”.
29:15
On a plane that is a large plane going a long distance,
518
1755563
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ์žฅ๊ฑฐ๋ฆฌ๋ฅผ ๊ฐ€๋Š” ๋น„ํ–‰๊ธฐ์—์„œ๋Š”
29:20
there's no chance that batteries will ever have that energy density.
519
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๋ฐฐํ„ฐ๋ฆฌ๋“ค์ด ๊ทธ ์ •๋„์˜ ์—๋„ˆ์ง€ ๋ฐ€๋„๋ฅผ ๊ฐ€์งˆ ์ˆ˜๊ฐ€ ์—†์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
29:26
I mean, there's some crazy people who are working on it,
520
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๊ทธ ์ž‘์—…์„ ํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ๋Š”, ์ œ์ •์‹ ์ด ์•„๋‹Œ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์ด ์žˆ๊ธด ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ,
29:29
and I'll be glad to fund them,
521
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์ €๋Š” ๊ธฐ๊บผ์ด ๊ทธ๋“ค์—๊ฒŒ ์ž๊ธˆ์„ ๋Œ€์–ด ๋“œ๋ฆฌ๊ฒ ์ง€๋งŒ
29:30
but you wouldn't want to count on that.
522
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๊ทธ๊ฒƒ๋งŒ์„ ๋ฐ”๋ผ๋ณด๊ณ  ์žˆ์œผ๋ฉด ์•ˆ ๋œ๋‹ค๋Š” ๋ง์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
29:32
And so you either have to use hydrogen as a plane fuel,
523
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์ˆ˜์†Œ๋ฅผ ๋น„ํ–‰๊ธฐ ์—ฐ๋ฃŒ๋กœ ์“ธ ์ˆ˜๋„ ์žˆ๊ฒ ์ฃ .
29:36
that has certain challenges,
524
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์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ ์–ด๋ ค์›€๋“ค์ด ์žˆ๊ฒ ์ง€๋งŒ์š”.
29:37
or you just want to make today's aviation fuel with green processes,
525
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ํ˜น์€ ์˜ค๋Š˜๋‚ ์˜ ํ•ญ๊ณต ์—ฐ๋ฃŒ๋ฅผ ์นœํ™˜๊ฒฝ ๊ณต์ •์œผ๋กœ ๋งŒ๋“œ๋Š” ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•๋„ ์žˆ๊ฒ ์ฃ .
29:44
like using plants as the source of how you make those.
526
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์˜ˆ๋ฅผ ๋“ค๋ฉด, ์‹๋ฌผ์„ ์›์žฌ๋ฃŒ๋กœ ์‚ฌ์šฉํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
29:50
And so I'm the biggest individual customer
527
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์ €๋Š” ์นœํ™˜๊ฒฝ ํ•ญ๊ณต ์—ฐ๋ฃŒ๋ฅผ ๋งŒ๋“œ๋Š” ๊ทธ๋ฃน์˜
29:54
of a group that makes green aviation fuel.
528
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๊ฐ€์žฅ ํฐ ๊ฐœ์ธ ๊ณ ๊ฐ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
29:58
So that's what I'm using now,
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ํ˜„์žฌ ์‚ฌ์šฉํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ๊ณ ์š”,
30:01
costs over twice as much as the normal aviation fuel.
530
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๊ฐ€๊ฒฉ์€ ๋ณดํ†ต ํ•ญ๊ณต ์—ฐ๋ฃŒ์˜ ๋‘ ๋ฐฐ๊ฐ€ ๋„˜์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
30:06
But as the demand scales up,
531
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ์ˆ˜์š”๊ฐ€ ๋Š˜์–ด๋‚ ์ˆ˜๋ก
30:08
that's one of those green premiums that we hope to bring down
532
1808497
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๋‚ด๋ ค์™”์œผ๋ฉด ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ทธ๋ฆฐ ํ”„๋ฆฌ๋ฏธ์—„๋“ค ์ค‘ ํ•˜๋‚˜์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
30:12
so that at some point lots of consumers will say,
533
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์–ธ์  ๊ฐ€ ๋งŽ์€ ๊ณ ๊ฐ๋“ค์ด
30:17
"Yes, I'll pay a little extra on my plane ticket,"
534
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์นดํƒˆ๋ฆฌ์ŠคํŠธ๋ฅผ ํ†ตํ•ด์„œ๋“ , ํ•ญ๊ณต์‚ฌ๋ฅผ ํ†ตํ•ด์„œ๋“ 
30:21
probably through Catalyst or through the airline
535
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โ€œ๊ทธ๋ž˜, ๋น„ํ–‰๊ธฐํ‘œ์— ์กฐ๊ธˆ ๋” ๋งŽ์€ ๋ˆ์„ ์“ฐ๊ฒ ์–ดโ€ ๋ผ๊ณ  ๋งํ•˜๋„๋ก ํ•˜์—ฌ,
30:24
to make sure that we're building up that industry
536
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์ด ์‚ฐ์—…์„ ๋ฐœ์ „์‹œํ‚ค๊ณ 
30:30
and trying to get the costs, that green premium down quite a bit.
537
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๋น„์šฉ, ์ฆ‰ ๊ทธ๋ฆฐ ํ”„๋ฆฌ๋ฏธ์—„์„ ์ ˆ๊ฐ์‹œ์ผœ์•ผ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
30:36
So this is a super important area
538
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์ด๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ๋งค์šฐ ์ค‘์š”ํ•œ ๋ถ„์•ผ์ž„์—๋„,
30:39
that, you know,
539
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๊ตฌ๋งคํ•˜๋Ÿฌ ๊ฐ”์„ ๋•Œ์—
30:41
I was amazed when I went to buy
540
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์ œ๊ฐ€ ์—ฌํƒœ๊ป ๊ฐœ์ธ์œผ๋กœ์„œ๋Š” ๊ฐ€์žฅ ํฐ ๊ณ ๊ฐ์ด๋ผ๋Š” ์‚ฌ์‹ค์—
30:44
that I was by far the biggest individual customer.
541
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๊นœ์ง ๋†€๋ž์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
30:50
Giussani: Itโ€™s also, of course, a very symbolic area, right?
542
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์ง€์šฐ์‚ฌ๋‹ˆ: ๋ฌผ๋ก  ๊ต‰์žฅํžˆ ์ƒ์ง•์ ์ธ ์˜์—ญ์ด๊ธฐ๋„ ํ•˜์ฃ ?
30:52
People think of cars and think of airplanes
543
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์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์€ ํ™˜๊ฒฝ์˜ค์—ผ์ด๋‚˜ ๋ฐฐ์ถœ๋Ÿ‰์„ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•  ๋•Œ
30:55
when they think of pollution and emissions.
544
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์ž๋™์ฐจ๋ฅผ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•œ ํ›„์— ๋น„ํ–‰๊ธฐ๋ฅผ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ด์š”.
30:59
There is a fourth technology that I want to bring up
545
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๋„ค ๋ฒˆ์งธ ๊ธฐ์ˆ ์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ์ด์•ผ๊ธฐํ•˜๊ณ  ์‹ถ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
31:02
because you are an advocate of and an investor in nuclear power,
546
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๋‹น์‹ ์ด ์ ๊ทน ์˜นํ˜ธํ•˜๊ณ  ํˆฌ์žํ•˜๋Š” ์›์ž๋ ฅ ๋ฐœ์ „์ธ๋ฐ์š”,
31:05
which is also not universally accepted as clean energy because of the risks,
547
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์ฒญ์ • ์—๋„ˆ์ง€๋กœ ๋ณดํŽธ์ ์œผ๋กœ๋Š” ๋ฐ›์•„๋“ค์—ฌ์ง€์ง€ ์•Š์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
31:10
because of radioactive waste.
548
1870097
2466
๋ฐฉ์‚ฌ๋Šฅ ํ๊ธฐ๋ฌผ์˜ ์œ„ํ—˜ ๋•Œ๋ฌธ์ด๊ฒ ์ฃ .
31:12
Can you make the case, briefly, but can you make your case for nuclear?
549
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์›์ž๋ ฅ์— ๊ด€ํ•œ ์ž…์žฅ์„ ๋ง์”€ํ•ด์ฃผ์‹ค ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์œผ์‹ค์ง€์š”?
31:16
Gates: Well, one thing that needs to be appreciated
550
1876830
2300
๊ฒŒ์ด์ธ : ํ•œ ๊ฐ€์ง€ ์ธ์ •ํ•ด์•ผ ํ•  ์ ์€
31:19
is that energy has to come from somewhere.
551
1879130
2400
์—๋„ˆ์ง€๋Š” ์–ด๋””์„ ๊ฐ€ ๋‚˜์™€์•ผ ํ•œ๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
31:21
And so as you stop using natural gas to heat homes
552
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๋”ฐ๋ผ์„œ ์ฃผํƒ ๋‚œ๋ฐฉ์„ ์œ„ํ•ด ์ฒœ์—ฐ๊ฐ€์Šค๋ฅผ ์‚ฌ์šฉํ•˜์ง€ ์•Š๊ณ ,
31:25
and gasoline to power cars,
553
1885130
2567
์ž๋™์ฐจ์— ํœ˜๋ฐœ์œ ๋ฅผ ์‚ฌ์šฉํ•˜์ง€ ์•Š์œผ๋ ค๋ฉด
31:27
the electric grid will have to grow dramatically.
554
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์ „๋ ฅ๋ง์ด ๊ธ‰๊ฒฉํ•˜๊ฒŒ ์„ฑ์žฅํ•ด์•ผ ํ•ด์š”.
31:34
And even in the case of the US,
555
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์ง€๋‚œ ์ˆ˜์‹ญ ๋…„๊ฐ„
31:38
where electricity demand has been flat the last few decades,
556
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์ „๋ ฅ์ˆ˜์š”๊ฐ€ ์ œ์ž๋ฆฌ๊ฑธ์Œ์„ ํ•œ ๋ฏธ๊ตญ์˜ ๊ฒฝ์šฐ์—๋„
31:41
will need to be almost three times as large.
557
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๊ฑฐ์˜ 3๋ฐฐ๋Š” ์ปค์•ผ ํ•  ๊ฑฐ์˜ˆ์š”.
31:44
As you do that with weather-dependent sources,
558
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๋‚ ์”จ์— ์˜ํ–ฅ์„ ๋ฐ›๋Š” ์—๋„ˆ์ง€์›์ด ๊ทธ๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ๋˜๋ฉด
31:49
the reliability of the electricity generation goes away,
559
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4533
๋ฐœ์ „์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ ์‹ ๋ขฐ์„ฑ์ด ์‚ฌ๋ผ์งˆ ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
31:53
that as you get big cold fronts
560
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์˜ˆ๋ฅผ ๋“ค์–ด, ์ค‘์„œ๋ถ€ ์ง€์—ญ์—์„œ๋Š”
31:55
that for 10 days can stop most of the wind and solar,
561
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10์ผ ๋™์•ˆ ํฐ ํ•œ๋žญ ์ „์„ ์ด ๋‚˜ํƒ€๋‚˜๋ฉด์„œ ๋ฐ”๋žŒ๊ณผ ํƒœ์–‘์—ด ๋Œ€๋ถ€๋ถ„์„
31:59
say, in the Midwest.
562
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๋ฉˆ์ถœ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
32:01
So the question is, how do you use massive amounts of transmission
563
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๊ทธ๋ ‡๋‹ค๋ฉด ๋ฌธ์ œ๋Š” ์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ๋ฐฉ๋Œ€ํ•œ ์–‘์˜ ์†ก์ „๊ณผ ์ €์žฅ์žฅ์น˜,
32:07
and storage and non weather-dependent sources which at scale nuclear
564
1927263
5000
๋‚ ์”จ์— ์˜ํ–ฅ์ด ์—†๋Š” ์—๋„ˆ์ง€์›์„ ์‚ฌ์šฉํ•˜๋Š๋ƒ ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
์›์ž๋ ฅ์€ ๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์˜ ์œ ์ผํ•œ ๋Œ€์•ˆ์œผ๋กœ
32:12
as the only choice there,
565
1932297
2400
32:14
to maintain that reliability
566
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1933
์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์˜ ์‹ ๋ขฐ๋ฅผ ๋ฐ›์„ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
32:16
and not have people, say, freeze to death.
567
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์ ์–ด๋„ ์–ผ์–ด์ฃฝ์„ ์ผ์€ ์—†๋‹ค๊ณ  ํ•˜๊ฒ ์ฃ .
32:19
And nuclear --
568
1939963
3167
๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์›์ž๋ ฅ์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ๋งํ•˜์ž๋ฉด,
32:23
People will be pretty impressed with how valuable it is
569
1943163
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๊ทธ ์‹ ๋ขฐ์„ฑ์„ ๋งŒ๋“ค์–ด๋‚ด๋Š” ๊ฒŒ ์–ผ๋งˆ๋‚˜ ์†Œ์ค‘ํ•œ ๊ฒƒ์ธ์ง€
32:28
to create that reliability.
570
1948130
2333
์•Œ๋ฉด ๋†€๋ผ์‹ค ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
32:30
Now, 80 percent, at least in the US, will be wind and solar.
571
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์ด์ œ ์ ์–ด๋„ ๋ฏธ๊ตญ์—์„œ๋Š” 80%๊ฐ€ ํ’๋ ฅ๊ณผ ํƒœ์–‘์—ด์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
32:34
So we have to build that faster than ever.
572
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๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ๊ทธ ์–ด๋Š ๋•Œ๋ณด๋‹ค๋„ ๋นจ๋ฆฌ ๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์„ ๊ตฌ์ถ•ํ•ด์•ผ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
32:38
But what is that piece that's always available is where nuclear would fit in.
573
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ํ•ญ์ƒ ๋“ค์–ด๋งž์„ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š” ์กฐ๊ฐ์ด ์›์ž๋ ฅ์ธ ์…ˆ์ด์ง€์š”.
32:45
Giussani: Now, you talk a lot about scaling up technologies in the book.
574
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์ง€์šฐ์‚ฌ๋‹ˆ: ์ฑ…์—์„œ ๋‹น์‹ ์€ ๊ธฐ์ˆ ์˜ ํ™•์žฅ์„ ์—ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ฒˆ ์–ธ๊ธ‰ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
32:48
I want to ask you a question about scaling down,
575
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ๋ฐ ์ €๋Š” ์ฑ…์—์„œ ๋‹ค๋ค„์ง€์ง€ ์•Š๋Š” ํ•œ ๊ฐ€์ง€,
32:50
because one thing that's absent from your book
576
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ํ™•์žฅ์ด ์•„๋‹Œ ์ถ•์†Œ์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ์งˆ๋ฌธํ•˜๊ณ  ์‹ถ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
32:53
is a discussion about scaling down fossil fuel production,
577
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ํ™”์„ ์—ฐ๋ฃŒ ์ƒ์‚ฐ๋Ÿ‰์˜ ์ถ•์†Œ์š”.
32:57
maybe starting with at least not expanding it anymore,
578
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์ ์–ด๋„ ๋” ์ด์ƒ ํ™•์žฅํ•˜์ง€ ์•Š๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์œผ๋กœ ์‹œ์ž‘ํ•˜์—ฌ
32:59
with adopting a sort of fossil fuel nonproliferation approach,
579
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์ผ์ข…์˜ ํ™”์„ ์—ฐ๋ฃŒ ๋น„ํ™•์‚ฐ ์ ‘๊ทผ๋ฒ•์„ ์ฑ„ํƒํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์ง€ ์•Š์„๊นŒ์š”?
33:03
because right now we are talking about a green transition,
580
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์™œ๋ƒํ•˜๋ฉด ์ €ํฌ๊ฐ€ ์ง€๊ธˆ ๋…น์ƒ‰ ์ „ํ™˜์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ๋…ผ์˜ํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ์ง€๋งŒ,
33:06
but at the same time we are building out further fossil fuel infrastructure.
581
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๋™์‹œ์— ํ™”์„ ์—ฐ๋ฃŒ ์ธํ”„๋ผ๋Š” ๊ณ„์† ๊ตฌ์ถ•๋˜์–ด ๊ฐ€๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ด ์‚ฌ์‹ค์ด๋‹ˆ๊นŒ์š”.
33:11
What's your view on that?
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์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜์‹œ๋‚˜์š”?
33:13
Gates: Well, itโ€™s all about the demand for fossil fuels
583
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๊ฒŒ์ด์ธ : ํ™”์„ ์—ฐ๋ฃŒ์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ ์ˆ˜์š” ๋•Œ๋ฌธ์ด์ฃ .
33:15
and the fact that the green premium is very high.
584
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๊ทธ๋ฆฐ ํ”„๋ฆฌ๋ฏธ์—„์ด ๋†’๋‹ค๋Š” ์‚ฌ์‹ค๋„ ์ผ์กฐํ•  ๊ฑฐ๊ณ ์š”.
33:20
If you want to restrict supply,
585
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๊ณต๊ธ‰์„ ์ œํ•œํ•˜๋ ค๋ฉด
33:23
then you'll just drive the price up.
586
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๊ฐ€๊ฒฉ์„ ์ธ์ƒํ•ด์•ผ๊ฒ ์ฃ .
33:26
People still want to drive to their job.
587
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์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์€ ์—ฌ์ „ํžˆ ์ถœํ‡ด๊ทผ์„ ์œ„ํ•ด ์šด์ „์„ ํ•  ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
33:28
If you know, say you made fossil fuels illegal.
588
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ํ™”์„ ์—ฐ๋ฃŒ ์‚ฌ์šฉ์„ ๋ถˆ๋ฒ•์œผ๋กœ ๋งŒ๋“ ๋‹ค๊ณ  ๊ฐ€์ •ํ•ด๋ด…์‹œ๋‹ค.
33:34
You know, try that for a few weeks.
589
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๋‹ค๋งŒ ๋ช‡ ์ฃผ ๋™์•ˆ์ด๋ผ๋„์š”.
33:37
My view is you have to create a substitute
590
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์•„๋งˆ ์ œ ์ƒ๊ฐ์—๋Š” ๋Œ€์ฒดํ’ˆ์ด ํ•„์š”ํ•˜๊ฒŒ ๋  ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
33:40
because the services provided by the fossil fuel
591
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ํ™”์„ ์—ฐ๋ฃŒ๊ฐ€ ์ œ๊ณตํ•˜๋Š” ์„œ๋น„์Šค๋“ค์ด
33:44
are actually quite valuable.
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์‚ฌ์‹ค ๊ฝค ๊ฐ€์น˜ ์žˆ๊ธฐ ๋•Œ๋ฌธ์ด์ฃ .
33:46
Electricity is valuable.
593
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์ „๊ธฐ๋Š” ๊ฐ€์น˜๊ฐ€ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
33:48
Transportation is valuable.
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๊ตํ†ต์ˆ˜๋‹จ๋„ ๊ฐ€์น˜๊ฐ€ ์žˆ์–ด์š”.
33:52
And are you willing to drop demand for those things to zero?
595
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๊ทธ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ ์ˆ˜์š”๋ฅผ 0์œผ๋กœ ๋‚ด๋ฆด ์˜ํ–ฅ์ด ์žˆ๋‚˜์š”?
33:59
So the capitalistic economy will respond.
596
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์ž๋ณธ์ฃผ์˜ ๊ฒฝ์ œ๋Š” ๊ทธ๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ๋ฐ˜์‘ํ•˜๊ฒ ์ฃ .
34:02
If it's clear, you know,
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์„ธ๊ธˆ ์ •์ฑ…๊ณผ ๋Œ€์ถœ์„ ์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ ํ•  ๊ฑด์ง€
34:04
how you're going to do your tax policies and your credit,
598
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ํ™•์‹คํ•˜๋‹ค๋ฉด,
34:07
you're going to drive innovation,
599
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ํ˜์‹ ์„ ์ด๋Œ๊ฒŒ ๋  ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
34:09
then the infrastructure investments in those things will go down.
600
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ ์ธํ”„๋ผ ํˆฌ์ž๋Š” ์ค„์–ด๋“ค ๊ฑฐ์˜ˆ์š”.
34:14
We see that with coal already today.
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์˜ค๋Š˜๋‚  ์„ํƒ„์ด ๋ฒŒ์จ ๋ณด์—ฌ์ฃผ๊ณ  ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
34:17
But ...
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ
34:20
Just speaking against something when you haven't created an alternative
603
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๋Œ€์•ˆ์„ ์ œ์‹œํ•˜์ง€ ์•Š์œผ๋ฉด์„œ ๋ฐ˜๋Œ€ ์˜๊ฒฌ๋งŒ ๋งํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ๋งŒ์œผ๋กœ
34:24
isn't going to get you to zero.
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0์ด ๋˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์€ ์•„๋‹™๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
34:27
Giussani: OK, I want to shift topics.
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์ง€์šฐ์‚ฌ๋‹ˆ: ๋„ค, ์ด์ œ ํ™”์ œ๋ฅผ ๋ฐ”๊ฟ”๋ณด์ฃ .
34:29
You mentioned before the pandemic,
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ํŒฌ๋ฐ๋ฏน ์ „์— ๋ง์”€ํ•˜์…จ๋‹ค์‹œํ”ผ
34:31
and your main focus since you set up the Gates Foundation
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๊ฒŒ์ด์ธ  ์žฌ๋‹จ์„ ์„ค๋ฆฝํ•˜์‹  ์ดํ›„๋กœ
34:34
has been on global health.
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์„ธ๊ณ„ ๋ณด๊ฑด์— ํž˜์“ฐ๊ณ  ๊ณ„์‹ญ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
34:35
I actually read the letter,
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์ œ๊ฐ€ ์–ด๋Š ํŽธ์ง€๋ฅผ ์ฝ์—ˆ๋Š”๋ฐ์š”,
34:36
the annual letter you wrote with your wife, Melinda, in January 2021,
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2021๋…„ 1์›”์— ์•„๋‚ด ๋ถ„์ด์‹  ๋ฉœ๋ฆฐ๋‹ค์™€ ํ•จ๊ป˜ ์“ฐ์‹ 
34:40
which was very much about the COVID-19 pandemic.
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์ฝ”๋กœ๋‚˜ 19 ํŒฌ๋ฐ๋ฏน ๊ด€๋ จ๋œ ์—ฐ๋ก€ ํŽธ์ง€๋ฅผ์š”.
34:44
And I found myself marveling
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๋‹น์‹ ์ด ์“ด ๊ธ€์ด ์–ผ๋งˆ๋‚˜
34:46
at how what you write resonates with the climate challenge.
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๊ธฐํ›„ ๋ฌธ์ œ์— ๊ณต๋ช…ํ•˜๋Š”์ง€์— ๊ฐํƒ„ํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
34:50
What lessons from the pandemic can be actually applied to climate?
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ๊ธฐํ›„ ๋ฌธ์ œ์— ์ ์šฉํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š” ํŒฌ๋ฐ๋ฏน์˜ ๊ตํ›ˆ์—๋Š” ์–ด๋–ค ๊ฒŒ ์žˆ์„๊นŒ์š”?
34:54
Gates: Well I think the biggest lesson is that governments got to, on our behalf,
615
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๊ฒŒ์ด์ธ : ๊ฐ€์žฅ ํฐ ๊ตํ›ˆ์€ ์ •๋ถ€๊ฐ€ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋ฅผ ๋Œ€์‹ ํ•ด์„œ
35:00
avoid disastrous future outcomes.
616
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์ฒ˜์ฐธํ•œ ๋ฏธ๋ž˜์˜ ๊ฒฐ๊ณผ๋“ค์„ ํ”ผํ•ด์•ผ ํ•œ๋‹ค๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
35:02
And individual citizens aren't equipped to either do those evaluations
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์‹œ๋ฏผ ๊ฐœ์ธ์€ ์ด๋Ÿฐ ์ƒํ™ฉ์— ํ•„์š”ํ•œ
35:09
or think through that R and D and deployment plan
618
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๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ํ‰๊ฐ€๋ฅผ ํ•˜๊ฑฐ๋‚˜ ์—ฐ๊ตฌ๊ฐœ๋ฐœ, ๋ฐฐ์น˜ ๊ณ„ํš์„ ์ƒ๊ฐํ• ๋งŒํ•œ
35:16
that's necessary here.
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์žฅ๋น„๋ฅผ ๊ฐ–์ถ”์ง€ ๋ชปํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
35:17
And so we have to make it an imperative
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๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š”
35:20
that governments, hopefully of any party,
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์ •๋ถ€, ๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ๋ชจ๋“  ์ •๋‹น๋“ค์ด ํ•„์ˆ˜์ ์œผ๋กœ ๋™์ฐธํ•˜๊ฒŒ ๋งŒ๋“ค์–ด์•ผ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
35:25
join in to this.
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35:26
The pandemic, we did eventually get global cooperation.
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ํŒฌ๋ฐ๋ฏน์€ ๊ฒฐ๊ตญ ์ „ ์„ธ๊ณ„์ ์ธ ํ˜‘๋ ฅ์„ ์ด๋Œ์–ด๋ƒˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
35:30
The US didn't play its normal role there,
624
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๋ฏธ๊ตญ์€ ํ‰์†Œ์™€ ๊ฐ™์€ ์—ญํ• ์„ ํ•˜์ง€ ๋ชปํ–ˆ์ฃ .
35:33
but the private sector innovation created the vaccine.
625
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ๋ฏผ๊ฐ„ ๋ถ€๋ถ„์˜ ํ˜์‹ ์ด ๋ฐฑ์‹ ์„ ๋งŒ๋“ค์–ด ๋ƒˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
35:38
Now, sadly, with climate,
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์Šฌํ”„๊ฒŒ๋„,
35:39
the pain it's causing gets worse over time.
627
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๊ธฐํ›„๊ฐ€ ์ดˆ๋ž˜ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ณ ํ†ต์€ ์‹œ๊ฐ„์ด ์ง€๋‚ ์ˆ˜๋ก ์ปค์ง€๊ณ  ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
35:43
So with the pandemic, we had all these deaths,
628
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ํŒฌ๋ฐ๋ฏน ์ƒํ™ฉ์—์„œ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ๋งŽ์€ ์ฃฝ์Œ๋“ค์„ ๊ฒฝํ—˜ํ–ˆ๊ณ ,
35:46
and people were like, "Wow, OK, we should do something."
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โ€œ์–ด๋–ป๊ฒŒ๋“ , ๋ญ๋ผ๋„ ํ•ด์•ผ ํ•œ๋‹คโ€œ๋ผ๊ณ  ์ด์•ผ๊ธฐํ–ˆ์ฃ .
35:49
With climate you can't wait.
630
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๊ธฐํ›„ ์ƒํ™ฉ๋„ ๋งˆ์ฐฌ๊ฐ€์ง€๋กœ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ๊ธฐ๋‹ค๋ฆด ์ˆ˜ ์—†์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
35:51
You know, the coral reefs will have died off,
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์‚ฐํ˜ธ์ดˆ๋“ค์ด ์ฃฝ์–ด๋‚˜๊ณ 
35:53
the species will be gone.
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์ข…๋“ค์ด ์‚ฌ๋ผ์ง„ ํ›„์—
35:56
And so if you say, "OK, well, let's, when it gets bad,
633
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โ€œ์ƒํ™ฉ์ด ๋” ๋‚˜๋น ์ง€๋ฉด ๋ฐฑ์‹  ๊ฐ™์€ ๊ฒƒ์„ ๋งŒ๋“ค์ง€, ๋ญโ€
36:00
we'll invent something like a vaccine."
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๋ผ๊ณ  ์ด์•ผ๊ธฐํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์€
36:02
That doesn't work,
635
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์•„๋ฌด ๋„์›€์ด ๋˜์ง€ ์•Š์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
36:03
because to stop the emissions,
636
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์™œ๋ƒํ•˜๋ฉด ๋ฐฐ์ถœ์„ ๋ฉˆ์ถ”๊ธฐ ์œ„ํ•ด์„œ๋Š”
36:05
you have to change every steel plant, cement plant, car,
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๋ชจ๋“  ์ฒ ๊ฐ• ๊ณต์žฅ, ์‹œ๋ฉ˜ํŠธ ๊ณต์žฅ, ์ž๋™์ฐจ๋ฅผ ๋ฐ”๊ฟ”์•ผ ํ•˜๊ธฐ ๋•Œ๋ฌธ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
36:12
things that have massive lead times
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์—„์ฒญ๋‚œ ์‚ฌ์ „ ์ค€๋น„ ๊ธฐ๊ฐ„๊ณผ
36:14
and literally trillions of dollars of investment.
639
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๋ง ๊ทธ๋Œ€๋กœ ์ˆ˜์กฐ ๋‹ฌ๋Ÿฌ์— ๋‹ฌํ•˜๋Š” ํˆฌ์ž๊ธˆ์„ ํ•„์š”๋กœ ํ•˜๋Š” ์ผ์ด์ฃ .
36:17
And so with the pandemic, we messed up.
640
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ํŒฌ๋ฐ๋ฏน ๋•Œ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์ž˜ ๋Œ€์ฒ˜ํ•˜์ง€ ๋ชปํ–ˆ์–ด์š”.
36:20
We didn't pay attention.
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์ฃผ์˜๋ฅผ ๊ธฐ์šธ์ด์ง€ ์•Š์•˜์ฃ .
36:23
You know, people like myself said it was a problem.
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์ €๋ฅผ ๋น„๋กฏํ•œ ๋งŽ์€ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์ด ๋ฌธ์ œ๋ผ๊ณ  ์ง€์ ํ–ˆ์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
36:27
But, now we're getting our way out of it through innovation.
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ํ˜์‹ ์„ ํ†ตํ•ด ํŒฌ๋ฐ๋ฏน์œผ๋กœ๋ถ€ํ„ฐ ๋ฒ—์–ด๋‚˜๊ณ  ์žˆ์ง€๋งŒ,
36:34
But climate's harder, much harder problem.
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๊ธฐํ›„ ๋ฌธ์ œ๋Š” ํ›จ์”ฌ ์–ด๋ ต์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
36:36
And so the political will to get it right
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๋•Œ๋ฌธ์— ๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์„ ๋ฐ”๋กœ์žก์œผ๋ ค๋Š” ์ •์น˜์  ์˜์ง€๋Š”
36:39
needs to be unprecedented
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ํŒฌ๋ฐ๋ฏน์ด๋‚˜ ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ์ •์น˜์  ์›์ธ์— ๋น„ํ•ด
36:44
compared to the pandemic or almost any other political cause.
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์ „๋ก€๊ฐ€ ์—†๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ด์–ด์•ผ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
36:48
Giussani: I want to correct you about private-sector innovation,
648
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์ง€์šฐ์‚ฌ๋‹ˆ: ๋ฏผ๊ฐ„ ๋ถ€๋ฌธ ํ˜์‹ ์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ๋ง์”€ํ•˜์‹  ๊ฒƒ๋“ค ์ค‘
36:52
because, of course, a lot of public money went into funding research
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๋ฐ”๋กœ์žก๊ณ  ์‹ถ์€ ๋ถ€๋ถ„์ด ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ์‚ฌ์‹ค ๋งŽ์€ ๊ณต๊ธˆ ๋˜ํ•œ
36:56
and guaranteed purchases.
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์—ฐ๊ตฌ ์ž๊ธˆ๊ณผ ๊ตฌ๋งค ๋ณด์žฅ์— ๋“ค์–ด๊ฐ”์–ด์š”.
36:58
And so for the vaccines.
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๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ ๋ฐฑ์‹ ์˜ ๊ฒฝ์šฐ, ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ์ƒํ™ฉ์ด๊ณ 
36:59
But that's a separate interview.
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๋ณ„๋„์˜ ์ธํ„ฐ๋ทฐ์—์„œ ๋‹ค๋ค„์•ผ ํ•  ๊ฒƒ ๊ฐ™์•„์š”.
37:01
Gates: Well, the Pfizer vaccine used no government money.
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๊ฒŒ์ด์ธ : ํ™”์ด์ž๋Š” ์ •๋ถ€ ๋ˆ์„ ์“ฐ์ง€ ์•Š์•˜์ฃ .
37:04
Giussani: Thatโ€™s absolutely true.
654
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์ง€์šฐ์‚ฌ๋‹ˆ: ๊ทธ๊ฑด ํ‹€๋ฆผ์—†๋Š” ์‚ฌ์‹ค์ด๋„ค์š”.
37:07
Bill, still related to our reaction to these big challenges,
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๋นŒ, ์ด๋Ÿฐ ํฐ ๋„์ „์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ์˜ ๋ฐ˜์‘์„ ๋‹ค์‹œ ์ด์•ผ๊ธฐํ•˜์ž๋ฉด,
37:12
over half of the total greenhouse gas emissions since 2017,
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2017๋…„ ์ดํ›„ ์ „์ฒด ์˜จ์‹ค๊ฐ€์Šค ๋ฐฐ์ถœ๋Ÿ‰์˜ ์ ˆ๋ฐ˜ ์ด์ƒ,
37:16
50 or 51 have gone up in the atmosphere in the last 30 years.
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์ง€๋‚œ 30๋…„ ๋™์•ˆ 50 ํ˜น์€ 51 ์ •๋„๊ฐ€ ๋Œ€๊ธฐ ์ค‘์œผ๋กœ ์˜ฌ๋ผ๊ฐ”์ฃ .
37:19
And we have known for more than 30 years that they have pernicious effects,
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์ง€๋‚œ 30๋…„ ๋™์•ˆ ์ตœ์†Œํ•œ ๊ทธ๋“ค์ด ์น˜๋ช…์ ์ธ ์˜ํ–ฅ์„ ๋ผ์นœ๋‹ค๋Š” ์‚ฌ์‹ค์„
37:24
to say the least.
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์šฐ๋ฆฐ ์•Œ๊ณ  ์žˆ์—ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
37:25
So if we could mobilize such enormous resources and policies
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ์ฝ”๋กœ๋‚˜ 19์— ๋Œ€ํ•ญํ•˜์—ฌ ๋ง‰๋Œ€ํ•œ ์ž์›๊ณผ ์ •์ฑ…,
37:28
and collaborations and global collaborations against COVID-19,
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ํ˜‘์—…, ์ „ ์„ธ๊ณ„์ ์ธ ํ˜‘์—…์„ ๋™์›ํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋‹ค๋ฉด
37:32
what's the lever we can use to mobilize the same against climate?
662
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๊ธฐํ›„ ๋ฌธ์ œ์— ์žˆ์–ด์„œ ํ™œ์šฉํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š” ์ง€๋ ›๋Œ€๋Š” ๋ฌด์—‡์ผ๊นŒ์š”?
37:36
Gates: Well, until 2015, nobody pushed for the R and D budgets to go up.
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๊ฒŒ์ด์ธ : 2015๋…„๊นŒ์ง€๋Š” ์—ฐ๊ตฌ๊ฐœ๋ฐœ ์˜ˆ์‚ฐ์„ ์˜ฌ๋ฆฌ๋ผ๋Š” ์š”๊ตฌ๋Š” ์—†์—ˆ์–ด์š”.
37:41
So, you know, there are times when I think
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์ €๋Š” ๊ฐ€๋” ์ƒ๊ฐํ•˜๊ณค ํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
37:43
"Wow, are we serious, are we not?"
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์—ฐ๊ตฌ๊ฐœ๋ฐœ ๊ด€๋ จ ๋ฌธ์ œ๊ฐ€ ์ „ํ˜€ ๋…ผ์˜๋˜๊ณ  ์žˆ์ง€ ์•Š์€ ์ƒํ™ฉ์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด,
37:48
You know, that R and D question just wasn't discussed.
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โ€œ์™€, ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์ •๋ง ๋…ผ์˜๋ฅผ ํ•˜์ง€ ์•Š์„ ๊ฒƒ์ธ๊ฐ€?โ€œ๋ผ๊ณ  ๋ง์ด์ฃ .
37:51
And you could read every paper on green steel
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๋ชจ๋“  ์‹ ๋ฌธ์—์„œ ์นœํ™˜๊ฒฝ ์ฒ ๊ฐ•์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ ๋‚ด์šฉ์„ ์ฐพ์•„๋ด๋„
37:55
and there were hardly any.
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๊ฑฐ์˜ ์—†์—ˆ์ฃ .
37:59
And so we are just starting to get serious about climate.
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์ด์ œ ๋ง‰ ๊ธฐํ›„ ๋ฌธ์ œ๋ฅผ ์‹ฌ๊ฐํ•˜๊ฒŒ ๋ฐ›์•„๋“ค์ด๊ธฐ ์‹œ์ž‘ํ•œ ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
38:04
And you know, we've wasted a lot of time
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์•„์‹œ๋‹ค์‹œํ”ผ, ์šฐ๋ฆฐ ๋„ˆ๋ฌด ๋งŽ์€ ์‹œ๊ฐ„์„ ๋‚ญ๋น„ํ–ˆ์–ด์š”.
38:08
that we should have used to work on the hard parts of climates,
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๊ธฐํ›„๋ผ๋Š” ์–ด๋ ค์šด ๋ฌธ์ œ์— ๋ฐ”์ณค์–ด์•ผ ํ–ˆ๋˜ ์‹œ๊ฐ„ ๋ง์ด์ฃ .
38:11
just having short-term goals and not focusing on the R and D piece,
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๊ทธ์ € ๋‹จ๊ธฐ์ ์ธ ๋ชฉํ‘œ๋งŒ ์„ธ์šฐ๊ณ  ์—ฐ๊ตฌ๊ฐœ๋ฐœ์— ์ง‘์ค‘ํ•˜์ง€ ์•Š์•˜์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
38:16
you know, the last 20 years,
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์ง€๋‚œ 20๋…„ ๋™์•ˆ
38:20
we don't have much to show for the hard categories.
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ์–ด๋ ค์šด ๋ถ„์•ผ๋“ค์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ๋ณด์—ฌ์ค„ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š” ๊ฒŒ ๋ณ„๋กœ ์—†์–ด์š”.
38:24
Now, there's still time to get there.
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์ž, ์•„์ง ์‹œ๊ฐ„์ด ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
38:28
We will have to fund adaptation a great deal
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์ ์‘์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ๋งŽ์€ ์ž๊ธˆ์„ ์ง€์›ํ•ด์•ผ ํ•  ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
38:32
because the 2050 goal is not because that's a goal
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ์„ธ์šด 2050๋…„ ๋ชฉํ‘œ๋Š”
38:38
that gives you zero damage.
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ํ”ผํ•ด๋ฅผ ์—†์• ๊ธฐ ๋•Œ๋ฌธ์— ์ •ํ•œ ๋ชฉํ‘œ๊ฐ€ ์•„๋‹™๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
38:39
It's simply the goal that is the most ambitious
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๊ทธ์ € ๋‹ฌ์„ฑ ๊ฐ€๋Šฅํ•œ ๋ฒ”์œ„ ๋‚ด์—์„œ
38:43
that has a chance of being achieved.
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๊ฐ€์žฅ ์•ผ์‹ฌ์ฐฌ ๋ชฉํ‘œ์ผ ๋ฟ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
38:47
And we are causing problems for subsistence farmers
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์šฐ๋ฆฐ ์ƒ๊ณ„ํ˜• ๋†๋ฏผ๋“ค๊ณผ
38:52
and sea-level rise and wildfires and natural ecosystems.
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ํ•ด์ˆ˜๋ฉด ์ƒ์Šน, ์‚ฐ๋ถˆ, ๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์ž์—ฐ์ƒํƒœ๊ณ„์— ๋ฌธ์ œ๋ฅผ ์ผ์œผํ‚ค๊ณ  ์žˆ์–ด์š”.
38:56
And so the adaptation side is even more underfunded
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์ ์‘ํ•˜๋Š” ๋ฐ ํ•„์š”ํ•œ ๋ถ€๋ถ„์ด ์™„ํ™”ํ•˜๋Š” ์ชฝ๋ณด๋‹ค
39:00
than the mitigation side.
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์ž๊ธˆ์ด ํ›จ์”ฌ ๋” ๋ถ€์กฑํ•œ ์ƒํ™ฉ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
39:01
For example, helping poor farmers
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์˜ˆ๋ฅผ ๋“ค๋ฉด, ๊ฐ€๋‚œํ•œ ๋†๋ถ€์— ๋„์›€์ด ๋˜๋Š”
39:04
with seeds that can deal with the droughts and high temperatures
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๊ฐ€๋ญ„๊ณผ ๊ณ ์˜จ์— ๊ฒฌ๋”œ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š” ์”จ์•—์€
39:09
is funded at less than a billion a year,
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์—ฐ๊ฐ„ 10์–ต ๋‹ฌ๋Ÿฌ ๋ฏธ๋งŒ์˜ ์ž๊ธˆ์„ ์ง€์›๋ฐ›์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
39:11
which is deeply tragic.
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์ •๋ง ๋น„๊ทน์ ์ธ ์ผ์ด์ฃ .
39:15
Giussani: Bill, weโ€™re getting towards the end.
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์ง€์šฐ์‚ฌ๋‹ˆ: ๋นŒ, ์ด์ œ ๊ณง ๋์„ ๋งบ์–ด์•ผ ํ•  ๊ฒƒ ๊ฐ™์•„์š”.
39:17
I mentioned at the beginning,
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์ œ๊ฐ€ ๋„์ž…๋ถ€์—์„œ ์ด์•ผ๊ธฐํ–ˆ๋“ฏ์ด,
39:19
in the book you describe yourself as an imperfect messenger on climate.
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์ฑ…์—์„œ ๋‹น์‹ ์€ ๊ธฐํ›„์˜ ๋ถˆ์™„์ „ํ•œ ๋ฉ”์‹ ์ €๋ฅผ ์ž์ฒ˜ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
39:23
What changes have you made in your personal and family life
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ํƒ„์†Œ๋ฐœ์ž๊ตญ์„ ์ค„์ด๊ธฐ ์œ„ํ•ด ๊ฐœ์ธ ๋ฐ ๊ฐ€์กฑ ์ƒํ™œ์—
39:27
to reduce your footprint?
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์–ด๋–ค ๋ณ€ํ™”๋ฅผ ๋งŒ๋“ค์—ˆ๋‚˜์š”?
39:28
Gates: Well, Iโ€™m certainly driving an electric car,
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๊ฒŒ์ด์ธ : ๋จผ์ € ์ €๋Š” ํ™•์‹คํžˆ ์ „๊ธฐ์ฐจ๋ฅผ ์ด์šฉํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ๊ณ ์š”,
39:32
you know, putting solar panels on the houses where that makes sense.
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์ ํ•ฉํ•œ ์ง‘๋“ค์—๋Š” ํƒœ์–‘์—ด ์ „์ง€ํŒ์„ ์„ค์น˜ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
39:40
Using this green aviation fuel,
696
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์นœํ™˜๊ฒฝ ํ•ญ๊ณต ์—ฐ๋ฃŒ๋ฅผ ์‚ฌ์šฉํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค๋งŒ
39:43
I still can't say that I've stopped eating meat
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์•„์ง์€ ๊ณ ๊ธฐ๋ฅผ ๋จน์ง€ ์•Š๋Š”๋‹ค๋“ ๊ฐ€
39:47
or that I never fly.
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๋น„ํ–‰ ์ž์ฒด๋ฅผ ํ•˜์ง€ ์•Š๋Š”๋‹ค๊ณ  ๋งํ•  ์ˆ˜๋Š” ์—†์–ด์š”.
39:51
And so it's mostly by funding at over seven million a year
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์ฃผ๋กœ ํƒ„์†Œ ํฌํš์ด๋‚˜ ํ•ญ๊ณต ์—ฐ๋ฃŒ ๋“ฑ
39:56
the products that although their green premiums are very high today,
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๊ทธ๋ฆฐ ํ”„๋ฆฌ๋ฏธ์—„์ด ๋†’์€ ์ œํ’ˆ๋“ค์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ
40:00
like the carbon capture or like the aviation fuel,
701
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์—ฐ๊ฐ„ 7๋ฐฑ๋งŒ ๋‹ฌ๋Ÿฌ ์ด์ƒ์˜ ์ž๊ธˆ ์ง€์›์„ ํ†ตํ•ด
40:05
by funding those, you actually get those on to the learning curve
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๊ทธ ํ•™์Šต๊ณก์„ ์— ์˜ฌ๋ผ๊ฐ€๊ณ ,
40:10
to get those prices down very dramatically.
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๊ฐ€๊ฒฉ์„ ๊ทน์ ์œผ๋กœ ์ธํ•˜์‹œํ‚ค๋Š” ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
40:15
One area that I do
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์ œ๊ฐ€ ์ž๊ธˆ์„ ์ง€์›ํ•˜๋Š” ์ผ ์ค‘ ํ•˜๋‚˜๋Š”
40:17
is I fund putting in electric heat-pumps into low-cost housing.
705
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์ €๋ ดํ•œ ์ฃผํƒ์— ์ „๊ธฐ ์—ดํŽŒํ”„๋ฅผ ์„ค์น˜ํ•˜๋Š” ์ผ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
40:22
And so instead of using natural gas,
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์ฒœ์—ฐ๊ฐ€์Šค ๋Œ€์‹ 
40:24
they get a lower bill because it's done with electricity.
707
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์ „๊ธฐ๋ฅผ ์‚ฌ์šฉํ•˜๊ธฐ ๋•Œ๋ฌธ์— ๊ทธ๋“ค์€ ๋” ๋‚ฎ์€ ์š”๊ธˆ์„ ์ง€๋ถˆํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
40:28
And I paid that extra capital cost as an offset.
708
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์ €๋Š” ๋ณด์กฐ๊ธˆ์˜ ๊ฐœ๋…์œผ๋กœ ๊ทธ ์ถ”๊ฐ€ ์ž๋ณธ ๋น„์šฉ์„ ์ง€๋ถˆํ•œ ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
40:33
So, you know, accelerating those demand things.
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์ด๋ฅผ ํ†ตํ•ด ์ˆ˜์š”๋ฅผ ๊ฐ€์†ํ™”ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฑฐ์ฃ .
40:38
I've tried to get out in front of that.
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์ €๋Š” ๊ทธ ์„ ๋‘์— ์„œ๊ณ ์ž ๋…ธ๋ ฅํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
40:40
Giussani: You also talk in the book about paying more than market value
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์ง€์šฐ์‚ฌ๋‹ˆ: ์ฑ…์—์„œ๋„ ์–ธ๊ธ‰ํ•˜์…จ์ฃ .
์‹œ์žฅ ๊ฐ€์น˜๋‚˜ ํ˜„์žฌ ์‹œ์„ธ๋ณด๋‹ค ๋” ๋งŽ์ด ์ง€๋ถˆํ•˜๋Š” ๋ณด์กฐ๊ธˆ์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด์„œ์š”.
40:44
or the current market price for offsets,
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40:47
and you hinted to them before, talking about the golden standard.
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์ตœ์  ๊ธฐ์ค€์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ๋ง์”€ํ•˜์‹œ๋ฉด์„œ ์•”์‹œํ•˜์…จ๋Š”๋ฐ์š”,
40:52
Tell us about what kind of --
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์–ด์ฉ ์ข…๋ฅ˜์˜ ๋ณด์กฐ๊ธˆ์ด
40:54
offsets can be kind of confusing and controversial.
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์กฐ๊ธˆ์€ ํ˜ผ๋ž€์Šค๋Ÿฝ๊ฑฐ๋‚˜ ๋…ผ๋ž€์˜ ์—ฌ์ง€๊ฐ€ ์žˆ์„ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์„์ง€์š”?
40:57
What are the right offsets?
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์˜ฌ๋ฐ”๋ฅธ ์ข…๋ฅ˜์˜ ๋ณด์กฐ๊ธˆ์—๋Š” ์–ด๋–ค ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์ด ์žˆ์„๊นŒ์š”?
41:01
Gates: Well, first of all, itโ€™s great that weโ€™re finally talking about offsets,
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๊ฒŒ์ด์ธ : ์šฐ์„ , ๋งˆ์นจ๋‚ด ๋ณด์กฐ๊ธˆ์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ์ด์•ผ๊ธฐํ•ด์„œ ์ข‹๊ตฐ์š”.
41:04
and any company that actually looks at their emissions
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์‹ค์ œ๋กœ ๋ฐฐ์ถœ๋Ÿ‰์„ ํ™•์ธํ•˜๋Š” ํšŒ์‚ฌ๋‚˜
41:10
and pays for offsets
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๋ณด์กฐ๊ธˆ์„ ์ง€๋ถˆํ•˜๋Š” ํšŒ์‚ฌ๋“ค์€
41:12
is way better than a company that either doesn't look at their emissions
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๋ฐฐ์ถœ๋Ÿ‰์„ ํ™•์ธํ•˜์ง€ ์•Š๊ฑฐ๋‚˜
41:16
or looks at them and doesn't pay for offsets.
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ํ™•์ธํ•˜๋˜ ๋ณด์กฐ๊ธˆ์ด ์—†๋Š” ํšŒ์‚ฌ๋ณด๋‹ค ํ›จ์”ฌ ๋‚ซ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
41:19
And so the leading companies are now buying offsets,
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๊ทธ๋ž˜์„œ ์„ ๋‘ ๊ธฐ์—…๋“ค์€ ์ด์ œ ๋ณด์กฐ๊ธˆ์„ ์‚ฌ๋“ค์ด๊ณ  ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
41:24
some of them spending hundreds of millions to buy offsets.
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์ˆ˜์–ต ๋‹ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ฅผ ์ง€์ถœํ•˜๋Š” ํšŒ์‚ฌ๋“ค๋„ ์žˆ์ฃ .
41:27
That is a very, very good thing.
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์•„์ฃผ ์ข‹์€ ํ˜„์ƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
41:29
The ability to see which offsets actually have long-term benefit
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์–ด๋–ค ๋ณด์กฐ๊ธˆ๋“ค์ด ์ˆ˜์ฒœ ๋…„ ๋™์•ˆ ํƒ„์†Œ๋ฅผ ๋ฐฐ์ œํ•˜๋Š”
41:34
that really keep the carbon out
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์‹ค์งˆ์ ์œผ๋กœ ์žฅ๊ธฐ์ ์ธ ์ด์ต์ด ์žˆ๋Š”์ง€
41:36
for the over thousands of years that count.
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๋‚ด๋‹ค๋ณผ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š” ๋Šฅ๋ ฅ์ด์ฃ .
41:40
There are now organizations that I and others are funding
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์ œ๊ฐ€ ๋ช‡๋ช‡ ๋ถ„๋“ค๊ณผ ํ•จ๊ป˜ ์ž๊ธˆ์„ ์ง€์›ํ•˜๋Š” ์กฐ์ง๋“ค์ด ์žˆ๋Š”๋ฐ์š”,
41:45
to label offsets as either gold standard
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ํ•ด๋‹น ์กฐ์ง๋“ค์€ ์ด๋Ÿฌํ•œ ๋ณด์กฐ๊ธˆ๋“ค์„ โ€œ์ตœ์  ๊ธฐ์ค€โ€
41:47
or different levels of impact.
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ํ˜น์€ ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ์ˆ˜์ค€์˜ ์˜ํ–ฅ์ด๋ผ๊ณ  ์นญํ•˜๊ณ ์ž ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
41:51
And the price of offsets range from 15 dollars a ton
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๋ณด์กฐ๊ธˆ์˜ ๋ฒ”์œ„๋Š” ํ†ค๋‹น 15๋‹ฌ๋Ÿฌ๋ถ€ํ„ฐ
41:55
to 600 dollars a ton.
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ํ†ค๋‹น 600๋‹ฌ๋Ÿฌ๊นŒ์ง€์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
41:57
Some of the low-cost ones may be really legitimate,
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์ ์€ ๋ณด์กฐ๊ธˆ๋“ค๋„ ๋„์›€์ด ๋  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์ฃ .
42:02
like reducing natural gas leakage.
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์ฒœ์—ฐ๊ฐ€์Šค ๋ˆ„์ถœ์„ ์ค„์ด๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ฒ˜๋Ÿผ ๋ง์ด์ฃ .
42:06
That is pretty dramatic in some cases
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๊ฒฐ๊ณผ์ ์œผ๋กœ ๋ณด๋ฉด,
42:11
in terms of the dollars per tons avoided there.
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ํ†ค๋‹น ์ง€์ผœ๋‚ธ ๊ธˆ์•ก์ด ์—„์ฒญ๋‚œ ๊ฒฝ์šฐ๋„ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
42:17
A lot of the forestry things will probably not end up looking that good,
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๋‚˜๋ฌด ํ•œ ๊ทธ๋ฃจ์˜ ์ผ์ƒ์„ ์‚ดํŽด๋ณด๊ฑฐ๋‚˜,
42:22
as you really look at the lifetime of the tree
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ๊ทธ๋Ÿฐ ํ–‰๋™์„ ์ทจํ•˜์ง€ ์•Š์•˜๋‹ค๋ฉด ์–ด๋• ์„์ง€ ์ƒ๊ฐํ–ˆ์„ ๋•Œ,
42:24
or what would have happened otherwise.
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์ˆฒ์ด๋ผ๋Š” ์ฐจ์›์—์„œ๋Š” ๊ทธ๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ์ข‹์•„ ๋ณด์ด์ง€ ์•Š์„ ๊ฑฐ์˜ˆ์š”.
42:26
But, you know, at least we're talking about offsets now.
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ์ ์–ด๋„ ์ง€๊ธˆ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๋Š” ๋ณด์กฐ๊ธˆ์— ๋Œ€ํ•˜์—ฌ ์ด์•ผ๊ธฐํ•˜๊ณ  ์žˆ์ฃ .
42:30
And now we're going to do it in a thoughtful way.
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ์•ž์œผ๋กœ๋Š” ๋”์šฑ ์‚ฌ๋ ค๊นŠ์€ ๋ฐฉ์‹์œผ๋กœ ํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
42:35
Giussani: So some of the people listening to this interview
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์ง€์šฐ์‚ฌ๋‹ˆ: ์ง€๊ธˆ ์ด ์ธํ„ฐ๋ทฐ๋ฅผ ๋“ฃ๊ณ  ์žˆ๋Š” ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค ์ค‘
42:38
may already be very involved with climate,
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์ด๋ฏธ ๊ธฐํ›„ ๋ฌธ์ œ์— ๊ด€์‹ฌ์ด ๋งŽ์€ ๋ถ„๋“ค๋„ ๋งŽ์„ ๊ฒƒ ๊ฐ™๊ณ ์š”,
42:40
others may be looking for ways to step up.
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๋” ๋ฐœ์ „ํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š” ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•์„ ์ฐพ๋Š” ๋ถ„๋“ค๋„ ๊ณ„์‹ค ๊ฒƒ ๊ฐ™์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
42:43
And at the end of your book,
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์ฑ…์˜ ๋งˆ์ง€๋ง‰ ๋ถ€๋ถ„์—
42:44
you have a chapter about individual action.
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๊ฐœ์ธ ํ–‰๋™์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ ๋‚ด์šฉ์ด ์žˆ๋Š”๋ฐ์š”,
42:47
Give us maybe, say, two examples,
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๋‘ ๊ฐ€์ง€ ์ •๋„์˜ ์˜ˆ์‹œ๋ฅผ ๋“ค์–ด์ฃผ์‹ค ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์„๊นŒ์š”?
42:50
two practical examples of things that individual citizens in the US,
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๊ธฐํ›„ ๋ณ€ํ™”์— ๋Œ€์ฒ˜ํ•˜๊ธฐ ์œ„ํ•ด ๋ฏธ๊ตญ์ด๋‚˜
42:53
but also elsewhere,
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๋‹ค๋ฅธ ๋‚˜๋ผ์˜ ์‹œ๋ฏผ๋“ค์ด
42:54
can do to play a meaningful role in tackling climate change.
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์‹ค์ฒœํ•  ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š” ์˜๋ฏธ์žˆ๋Š” ์—ญํ• ์ด ๋ฌด์—‡์ผ์ง€ ์—ฌ์ญค๋ณด๊ณ  ์‹ถ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
42:59
Gates: I think everybody should start by learning more, you know.
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๊ฒŒ์ด์ธ : ๋ชจ๋‘๊ฐ€ ๋” ๋งŽ์ด ๋ฐฐ์šฐ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์—์„œ ์‹œ์ž‘ํ•ด์•ผ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
43:04
How much steel do we make and where are those steel plants?
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ๊ฐ•์ฒ ์„ ์–ผ๋งˆ๋‚˜ ๋งŒ๋“ค๊ณ , ๊ทธ ๊ฐ•์ฒ  ๊ณต์žฅ๋“ค์€ ์–ด๋””์— ์žˆ์„๊นŒ์š”?
43:09
The industrial economy is kind of a miracle,
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์‚ฐ์—…๊ฒฝ์ œ๋Š” ๊ธฐ์ ๊ฐ™์€ ๊ฒƒ์ด์ง€๋งŒ
43:11
although sadly, it's a source of so many emissions.
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๋„ˆ๋ฌด๋‚˜๋„ ๋งŽ์€ ๋ฐฐ์ถœ๋Ÿ‰์˜ ๊ทผ์›์ด๊ธฐ๋„ ํ•˜์ง€์š”.
43:15
Once you really educate yourself,
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์ผ๋‹จ ์ž์‹ ์ด ๋งŽ์ด ๋ฐฐ์šด ๋‹ค์Œ์—๋Š”
43:17
then you're in a position to educate others,
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์ด๊ฒŒ ์™œ ๊ทธ๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ์ค‘์š”ํ•œ ๊ฑด์ง€
43:20
hopefully, of diverse political beliefs
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๋˜๋„๋ก ๋‹ค์–‘ํ•œ ์ •์น˜์  ์‹ ๋…์„ ๊ฐ€์ง„ ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์—๊ฒŒ
43:22
about why this is so important.
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๊ฐ€๋ฅด์ณ์ค„ ์œ„์น˜์— ์„ค ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
43:26
And yet it's also very, very hard to do.
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์•„์ฃผ ์–ด๋ ค์šด ์ผ์ด์ฃ .
43:32
You have all your buying behavior,
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๊ฐ์ž์˜ ๊ตฌ๋งค ํ–‰๋™์ด ์žˆ์ž–์•„์š”,
43:33
electric cars, artificial meat, you know,
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์ „๊ธฐ์ฐจ, ์ธ๊ณต์œก ๋“ฑ
43:36
and you'll see for all the different products
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๋‹ค์–‘ํ•œ ์ƒํ’ˆ๋“ค์—๊ฒŒ์„œ
43:39
various things that indicate how green that product is.
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๊ทธ ์ƒํ’ˆ์ด ์–ผ๋งˆ๋‚˜ ์นœํ™˜๊ฒฝ์ ์ธ์ง€ ์•Œ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š” ์ง€ํ‘œ๋ฅผ ๋ณด๊ฒŒ ๋  ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
43:43
And your demand doesn't just save those emissions,
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๋‹น์‹ ์˜ ์ˆ˜์š”๋Š” ๋‹จ์ˆœํžˆ ๋ฐฐ์ถœ์„ ์ค„์ผ ๋ฟ ์•„๋‹ˆ๋ผ
43:47
it also encourages the improvement of the green product.
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์นœํ™˜๊ฒฝ ์ œํ’ˆ์˜ ๊ฐœ์„ ์„ ์žฅ๋ คํ•˜๊ธฐ๋„ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
43:55
Political voice, I'd still put it number one.
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์ •์น˜์  ๋ชฉ์†Œ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ๊ทธ๋ž˜๋„ ๊ฐ€์žฅ ์ค‘์š”ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
44:00
Making sure your company is measuring its emissions
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์ž์‹ ์˜ ํšŒ์‚ฌ๊ฐ€ ๋ฐฐ์ถœ๋Ÿ‰์„ ์ธก์ •ํ•˜๊ณ 
44:06
and is starting to fund offsets
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๋ณด์กฐ๊ธˆ์„ ๋Œ€๊ธฐ ์‹œ์ž‘ํ•˜๋Š”์ง€ ํ™•์ธํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ,
44:09
and is willing to be a customer
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ํ˜์‹ ์ ์ธ ์ €์žฅ ์†”๋ฃจ์…˜์ด๋‚˜
44:11
for breakthrough storage solutions
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์นœํ™˜๊ฒฝ ํ•ญ๊ณต ์—ฐ๋ฃŒ๋ฅผ
44:14
or green aviation fuel.
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๊ธฐ๊บผ์ด ์‚ฌ์šฉํ•˜๋Š” ๊ณ ๊ฐ์ด ๋˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ.
44:17
That is catalytic.
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๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์€ ์ด‰๋งค์ œ์˜ ์—ญํ• ์„ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
44:19
And a lot of those funds hopefully will go through this vehicle
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๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ๋งŽ์€ ์ž๊ธˆ์ด
44:22
that's really identifying which projects globally
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์ „ ์„ธ๊ณ„์˜ ํ”„๋กœ์ ํŠธ๋“ค ์ค‘
44:26
are technologies that won't stay expensive
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ํƒœ์–‘์—ด๊ณผ ํ’๋ ฅ์ด ๊ทธ๋žฌ๋˜ ๊ฒƒ์ฒ˜๋Ÿผ ๋น„์šฉ์ด ๋‚ฎ์•„์งˆ ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ๋Š” ๊ธฐ์ˆ ๋“ค์„
44:30
but can do like what solar and wind did and come down in price.
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๋ถ„๋ณ„ํ•ด ๋‚ด๊ณ , ๊ธฐ์ˆ ๋“ค์— ์“ฐ์ด๊ธธ ๋ฐ”๋ž๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
44:35
So individuals are what drive this thing.
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๊ฒฐ๊ตญ์€ ๊ฐœ์ธ๋“ค์ด ์ด ์ผ์„ ์ด๋„๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
44:40
The democracies are where most of the innovation power is
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ํ˜์‹ ์˜ ํž˜์€ ๋Œ€๋ถ€๋ถ„ ๋ฏผ์ฃผ์ฃผ์˜์— ์žˆ๊ธฐ์—,
44:44
and they have to get activated and set the example.
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๊ทธ๋“ค์ด ํ™œ์„ฑํ™”ํ•ด์„œ ๋ชจ๋ฒ”์„ ๋ณด์—ฌ์•ผ ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
44:48
Giussani: I would like to end on the outcome.
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์ง€์šฐ์‚ฌ๋‹ˆ: ๊ฒฐ๊ณผ์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ์ด์•ผ๊ธฐํ•˜๋ฉด์„œ ์ด ์ธํ„ฐ๋ทฐ๋ฅผ ๋งˆ๋ฌด๋ฆฌ ์ง“๊ณ ์ž ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
44:52
Maybe we should have started with the outcome,
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๊ฒฐ๊ณผ์— ๋Œ€ํ•ด ์ด์•ผ๊ธฐํ•˜๋ฉฐ ์‹œ์ž‘ํ–ˆ์–ด๋„ ์ข‹์•˜๊ฒ ๊ตฐ์š”.
44:54
but let's imagine a world
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ํ•จ๊ป˜ ์ƒ์ƒํ•ด๋ด…์‹œ๋‹ค.
44:55
where we will actually have done all of what you describe in the book
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๋‹น์‹ ์ด ์ฑ…์—์„œ ์„ค๋ช…ํ•œ ๋ชจ๋“  ๊ฒƒ๋“ค, ๊ทธ๋ฆฌ๊ณ  ํ•„์ˆ˜์ ์ธ ๋‚˜๋จธ์ง€ ๋ชจ๋“  ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์„
44:59
and everything else that's necessary.
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์œผ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ์ด๋ฃจ์–ด๋‚ธ ์„ธ์ƒ์„์š”.
45:02
What would that future everyday life look like?
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๊ทธ ๋ฏธ๋ž˜์˜ ์ผ์ƒ์ƒํ™œ์€ ์–ด๋–ค ๋ชจ์Šต์ผ๊นŒ์š”?
45:07
Gates: Well, I think everybody will be really proud
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๊ฒŒ์ด์ธ : ์ œ ์ƒ๊ฐ์—” ๋ชจ๋‘๊ฐ€ ์ •๋ง ์ž๋ž‘์Šค๋Ÿฌ์šธ ๊ฒƒ ๊ฐ™์•„์š”.
45:10
that humanity came together on a global basis
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์ „ ์„ธ๊ณ„์˜ ์ธ๋ฅ˜๊ฐ€ ํ•˜๋‚˜๋กœ ๋ญ‰์ณ์„œ
45:15
to make this radical change
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์ด ๊ธ‰์ง„์ ์ธ ๋ณ€ํ™”๋ฅผ ์‹คํ˜„ํ–ˆ๋‹ค๋Š” ์‚ฌ์‹ค์—.
45:16
and there's no precedent for it.
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์ „๋ก€๊ฐ€ ์—†๋Š” ์ผ์ด์ฃ .
45:20
Even world wars,
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์‹ฌ์ง€์–ด ์„ธ๊ณ„ ๋Œ€์ „๋“ค๋„,
45:21
where we orchestrated lots of resources,
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๋งŽ์€ ์ž์›์ด ๋“ค์–ด๊ฐ”์ง€๋งŒ
45:23
it was, like, four or five year duration.
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4, 5๋…„ ์ •๋„๋ฐ–์— ์ง€์†๋˜์ง€ ๋ชปํ–ˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
45:26
And here we're talking about three decades of hard work
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์ง€๊ธˆ ์ €ํฌ๊ฐ€ ์ด์•ผ๊ธฐํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฑด 30๋…„์— ๊ฐ€๊นŒ์šด ๋…ธ๋ ฅ๊ณผ
45:30
dealing with an enemy
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๋ฏธ๋ž˜์— ๋ถˆ๊ฑฐ์งˆ ๋‚˜์œ ์ผ๋“ค์ด๋ผ๋Š”
45:32
that the super bad stuff is out in the future.
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์ ๊ณผ ์‹ธ์šฐ๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ด์ฃ .
45:36
And so you're benefiting young people and future generations.
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๊ฒฐ๊ณผ์ ์œผ๋กœ ์ Š์€ ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค๊ณผ ๋ฏธ๋ž˜ ์„ธ๋Œ€๋“ค์ด ๋“์„ ๋ณด๋Š” ์ผ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
45:40
In some ways, you know,
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์–ด๋–ค ๋ฉด์—์„œ๋Š”
45:44
life will look a lot like it does today.
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์˜ค๋Š˜๋‚ ์˜ ์‚ถ๊ณผ ๋ณ„๋‹ค๋ฅผ ๋ฐ” ์—†์„ ๊ฑฐ์˜ˆ์š”.
45:48
You'll still have buildings,
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๋นŒ๋”ฉ๋„ ์žˆ๊ณ ,
45:50
you'll have air conditioning, you'll have lights at night.
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์—์–ด์ปจ๋„ ์žˆ๊ณ , ๋ฐค์— ๋ถˆ๋น›๋„ ์žˆ์œผ๋‹ˆ๊นŒ์š”.
45:53
But all of those you'll multiply by zero
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ํ•˜์ง€๋งŒ ๊ทธ ํ™œ๋™๋“ค์„ ํ•˜๋Š” ๋ฐ ์žˆ์–ด ๋‚˜์˜ค๋Š” ๋ฐฐ์ถœ๋Ÿ‰์€
45:57
in terms of what the emissions that come out of those activities are.
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๊ณฑํ•˜๊ธฐ 0์„ ํ•ด์•ผ๊ฒ ์ฃ .
46:04
During the same time frame
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๋™์ผํ•œ ๊ธฐ๊ฐ„ ๋™์•ˆ์—
46:06
we'll have advances in medicine of curing cancer
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์•” ์น˜๋ฃŒ ์˜ํ•™์ด ์ง„๋ณดํ•  ๊ฒƒ์ด๊ณ ,
46:10
and finishing polio and malaria and all sorts of things.
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์†Œ์•„๋งˆ๋น„, ๋ง๋ผ๋ฆฌ์•„ ๊ฐ™์€ ๊ฒƒ๋“ค์€ ์—†์–ด์งˆ์ง€๋„ ๋ชจ๋ฆ…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
46:14
And so by taking away this one super negative thing,
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๋‹ค์‹œ ๋งํ•ด, ์—„์ฒญ ๋ถ€์ •์ ์ธ ๊ฒƒ ํ•˜๋‚˜๋ฅผ ์ œ๊ฑฐํ•จ์œผ๋กœ์จ
46:19
then all the progress we make in other areas
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๋‹ค๋ฅธ ๋ถ„์•ผ์—์„œ ๋ฐœ์ „์„ ์ด๋ฃจ๋„๋ก ํ•˜๋Š” ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
46:21
won't get reduced by this awful thing
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๊ทธ ๋”์ฐํ•œ ๊ฒƒ์— ์˜ํ•ด ์–ต์ œ๋˜์ง€ ์•Š๊ณ ์š”.
46:26
that, if it goes unchecked,
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์† ์“ฐ์ง€ ์•Š๋Š”๋‹ค๋ฉด,
46:28
the migration out of the equatorial regions,
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์ ๋„ ์ง€์—ญ์œผ๋กœ๋ถ€ํ„ฐ์˜ ์ด์ฃผ,
46:32
the number of deaths,
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์‚ฌ๋ง์ž ์ˆ˜
46:33
it'll make the pandemic look like nothing.
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์ด๋Ÿฐ ์ผ๋“ค์— ๋น„ํ•˜๋ฉด ํŒฌ๋ฐ๋ฏน์€ ์•„๋ฌด๊ฒƒ๋„ ์•„๋‹™๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
46:35
I think so from a moral point of view
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๋„๋•์ ์ธ ๊ด€์ ์—์„œ ๊ทธ๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ์ƒ๊ฐํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
46:38
and letting the other improvements not be offset by this.
814
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์ด๋กœ ์ธํ•ด ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ๋ฐœ์ „๋“ค์ด ์ƒ์‡„๋˜์ง€ ์•Š์•„์•ผ ํ•˜๊ณ ์š”,
46:43
It'll be a source of great pride
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๋ชจ๋‘๊ฐ€ ํž˜์„ ๋ชจ์•˜๋‹ค๋Š” ์‚ฌ์‹ค์€
46:48
that, hey, we came together.
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ํฐ ์ž๋ž‘๊ฑฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ๋  ๊ฒ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
46:50
Giussani: OK, letโ€™s hope that we actually do.
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์ง€์šฐ์‚ฌ๋‹ˆ: ์ •๋ง ์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ๊ทธ๋ ‡๊ฒŒ ํ•˜๊ธฐ๋ฅผ ๋ฐ”๋ž๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
46:52
Bill Gates, thank you for sharing your knowledge,
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๋นŒ ๊ฒŒ์ด์ธ , ๋‹น์‹ ์˜ ์ง€์‹์„ ๊ณต์œ ํ•ด ์ฃผ์…”์„œ ๊ฐ์‚ฌํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
46:55
thank you for this very, very important book.
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์ •๋ง ์ค‘์š”ํ•œ ์ฑ…์„ ๋‚ด์ฃผ์…”์„œ,
46:57
And thank you for coming back to TED.
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๋˜ TED๋กœ ๋Œ์•„์™€ ์ฃผ์…”์„œ ๊ฐ์‚ฌํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
46:59
I want to close by showing another short clip
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๋นŒ์˜ ์ฑ…์—์„œ ์˜๊ฐ์„ ๋ฐ›์€
47:01
from the TED-Ed animation series inspired by Bill's book.
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TED-Ed ์• ๋‹ˆ๋ฉ”์ด์…˜ ์‹œ๋ฆฌ์ฆˆ ์ค‘ ํ•˜๋‚˜๋ฅผ ๋ณด์—ฌ๋“œ๋ฆฌ๋ฉด์„œ ๋งˆ๋ฌด๋ฆฌ ์ง“๊ฒ ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
47:04
This one is about material that's all around us,
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์ด๋ฒˆ ํด๋ฆฝ์€ ์šฐ๋ฆฌ ์ฃผ๋ณ€์— ์žˆ๋Š” ๋ฌผ์งˆ๋“ค์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ ์˜์ƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
47:07
has a big carbon footprint and how to reinvent it.
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ํƒ„์†Œ ๋ฐœ์ž๊ตญ์ด ํฐ ๋ฌผ์งˆ๋“ค๊ณผ ๊ทธ๊ฒƒ์„ ์žฌ์ฐฝ์กฐํ•˜๋Š” ๋ฐฉ๋ฒ•์— ๋Œ€ํ•œ ๋‚ด์šฉ์ด์ฃ .
47:11
Now, the series includes seven videos.
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์‹œ๋ฆฌ์ฆˆ์—๋Š” ์ผ๊ณฑ ๊ฐœ์˜ ์˜์ƒ์ด ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
47:13
You can watch them all for free at ed.ted.com/planforzero.
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ed.ted.com/planforzero ์—์„œ ๋ฌด๋ฃŒ๋กœ ์‹œ์ฒญํ•˜์‹ค ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
47:19
That's planforzero, one single word.
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ํ•œ ๋‹จ์–ด๋กœ planforzero ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
47:22
And on the TED-Ed YouTube channel.
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Ted-Ed ์œ ํŠœ๋ธŒ ์ฑ„๋„์—์„œ๋„ ํ™•์ธํ•˜์‹ค ์ˆ˜ ์žˆ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
47:24
Thank you. Goodbye.
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์ด๋งŒ ์ธ์‚ฌ๋“œ๋ฆฌ๊ฒ ์Šต๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ๊ฐ์‚ฌํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
47:27
(Video) Look around your home.
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(์˜์ƒ) ๋‹น์‹ ์˜ ์ง‘์„ ๋‘˜๋Ÿฌ๋ณด์„ธ์š”.
47:28
Refrigeration, along with other heating and cooling,
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๋ƒ‰์žฅ๊ณ ์™€ ๋‹ค๋ฅธ ๋ƒ‰๋‚œ๋ฐฉ ์‹œ์„ค์€
47:31
makes up about six percent of total emissions.
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์ „์ฒด ๋ฐฐ์ถœ๋Ÿ‰์˜ 6%๋ฅผ ์ฐจ์ง€ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
47:35
Agriculture, which produces our food, accounts for 18 percent.
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ์˜ ์‹๋Ÿ‰์„ ์ƒ์‚ฐํ•˜๋Š” ๋†์—…์€ 18%,
47:39
Electricity is responsible for 27 percent.
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์ „๊ธฐ๋Š” 27%๋ฅผ ์ฐจ์ง€ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
47:44
Walk outside and the cars zipping past, planes overhead,
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๋ฐ–์—์„  ์ž๋™์ฐจ๋“ค์ด ๋น ๋ฅด๊ฒŒ ์ง€๋‚˜๊ฐ€๊ณ , ๋น„ํ–‰๊ธฐ๋“ค์ด ๋จธ๋ฆฌ ์œ„๋กœ ๋‚ ์•„๊ฐ€๊ณ ,
47:48
trains ferrying commuters to work.
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์—ด์ฐจ๋“ค์€ ์ถœํ‡ด๊ทผํ•˜๋Š” ์‚ฌ๋žŒ๋“ค์„ ๋‚˜๋ฅด๊ณ  ์žˆ์ฃ .
47:50
Transportation, including shipping,
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ํ•ด์ƒ์„ ํฌํ•จํ•œ ๊ตํ†ต์ˆ˜๋‹จ์€
47:52
contributes 16 percent of greenhouse gas emissions.
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์˜จ์‹ค๊ฐ€์Šค ๋ฐฐ์ถœ๋Ÿ‰์˜ 16%๋ฅผ ์ฐจ์ง€ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
47:57
Even before we use any of these things,
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์šฐ๋ฆฌ๊ฐ€ ์‚ฌ์šฉํ•˜๊ธฐ๋„ ์ „์—
47:59
making them produces emissions,
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๋งŒ๋“œ๋Š” ๋‹จ๊ณ„์—์„œ๋ถ€ํ„ฐ ๋ฐฐ์ถœ๋Ÿ‰์ด ์ƒ๊น๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
48:02
a lot of emissions.
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๋งŽ์€ ๋ฐฐ์ถœ๋Ÿ‰์ด์š”.
48:04
Making materials, concrete, steel, plastic, glass,
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์ฝ˜ํฌ๋ฆฌํŠธ, ๊ฐ•์ฒ , ํ”Œ๋ผ์Šคํ‹ฑ, ์œ ๋ฆฌ, ์•Œ๋ฃจ๋ฏธ๋Š„ ๋“ฑ
48:08
aluminum and everything else
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๋ชจ๋“  ๋ฌผ์งˆ์„ ๋งŒ๋“œ๋Š” ํ™œ๋™์€
48:10
accounts for 31 percent of greenhouse gas emissions.
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์˜จ์‹ค ๊ฐ€์Šค ๋ฐฐ์ถœ๋Ÿ‰์˜ 31%๋ฅผ ์ฐจ์ง€ํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค.
48:14
[Watch the full animated series at ed.ted.com/planforzero
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[์ „์ฒด ์‹œ๋ฆฌ์ฆˆ๋Š” ๋‹ค์Œ ์ฃผ์†Œ์—์„œ ํ™•์ธํ•˜์„ธ์š”. ed.ted.com/planforzero ๋˜๋Š”
48:17
and youtube.com/ted-ed]
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youtube.com/ted-ed]
์ด ์›น์‚ฌ์ดํŠธ ์ •๋ณด

์ด ์‚ฌ์ดํŠธ๋Š” ์˜์–ด ํ•™์Šต์— ์œ ์šฉํ•œ YouTube ๋™์˜์ƒ์„ ์†Œ๊ฐœํ•ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ์ „ ์„ธ๊ณ„ ์ตœ๊ณ ์˜ ์„ ์ƒ๋‹˜๋“ค์ด ๊ฐ€๋ฅด์น˜๋Š” ์˜์–ด ์ˆ˜์—…์„ ๋ณด๊ฒŒ ๋  ๊ฒƒ์ž…๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ๊ฐ ๋™์˜์ƒ ํŽ˜์ด์ง€์— ํ‘œ์‹œ๋˜๋Š” ์˜์–ด ์ž๋ง‰์„ ๋”๋ธ” ํด๋ฆญํ•˜๋ฉด ๊ทธ๊ณณ์—์„œ ๋™์˜์ƒ์ด ์žฌ์ƒ๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ๋น„๋””์˜ค ์žฌ์ƒ์— ๋งž์ถฐ ์ž๋ง‰์ด ์Šคํฌ๋กค๋ฉ๋‹ˆ๋‹ค. ์˜๊ฒฌ์ด๋‚˜ ์š”์ฒญ์ด ์žˆ๋Š” ๊ฒฝ์šฐ ์ด ๋ฌธ์˜ ์–‘์‹์„ ์‚ฌ์šฉํ•˜์—ฌ ๋ฌธ์˜ํ•˜์‹ญ์‹œ์˜ค.

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